My shaping video is available on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isUY-x5rZ_w
I hope you enjoy it.
Nice vid, Jeff. Good to see some Rhyno Foam on here, that’s some damn good PU. Those caxita wood stringers can be planed against the grain, if you do that on other wood it’ll explode all over the place. You should cut all your rail bands with the planer and throw away the surforms, IMO, but your finished product looks tight.
…hello Jeffshaper, I think if you put a clip in public forum you re not afraid to some others point of views…
in my opinion, the final product looking very good and going with a non mod planer is a bit more time consuming and a bit more difficult
but is not possible to shape a custom order that way
preshaping:
needs to check the blank and true it. Always
check the stringer/s
shaping:
where s the dimension check out? (rocker changes, types of bottoms, etc)
far better to use the planer to true in the outline than block or surform
etc
-kind of robotic for me, but this is very common and is the rule for 75% of the shapers…or more
yes, if someone use always the same plug with the “same” rocker dial in is a fact
but for me reduce all to get rid of the crust and round a bit the rail lines, then make one or another tail is production of a product only…good if some one want the same type of boards again and again
that is shaping but
“follow” the plug dims is not custom shaping
—MD, incredible, but one thing that I really dont like about Rhyno foam is the wood of the stringers; heavy and very difficult to pass the handplane in the nose
better is the wood used in the Surfblanks/teccel foam
Reverb, thanks for giving a contrary viewpoint.
As the complete amateur I am, I was watching the video thinking I had it all wrong, and that I was somehow missing what a pro shaper does. I spend so much time checking every little detail.
I guess that others with far more skill than I have can take a blank and walk around it with a planer and have it turn out right. But I always need to pull out the calipers and check the thicknesses at nose mid and tail to make sure I get the volume.
Can some of you Real shapers let me know, do you pull out a straight edge to check rocker while shaping? Calipers to check thickness? How about a template to check rail profile? Does anybody but me put a level on the top (assuming the shaping stands underneath are level) so see if the blank is twisted?
Am I too cautious? Should I just follow the blank and let the foam fall where it may?
Mike Daniel would know I was not impressed, but that is only my thought.
Unless I am replicating a certain model, I do NOT check the rocker with a straight edge, you get to know how a rocker looks and what that curve is going to do.
I have a collection of half curves, deck rail and bottom tucks, these put together in combinations let me check right to left on rail symmetry, as far as twists, the eye tells the story, either you see it or you don’t.
Trying to use a level on the deck is almost impossible, unless you have something to keep the center of the level off the stringer.
Cleaning up the plan shape by hand is the biggest waste of time, the planer will do a much better and accurate job.
Pre cleaning the blank to remove as much extra foam first was one of the best breakthroughs for me, the rail is thinner, so plan shaping becomes much easier, plus with the added width, wiggles and minor errors are always at the rail edge, not inboard in the flats, so once the board is cut out, the result is much cleaner.
The rockering of the tail, (this is where i turned it off) was just so primitive, I work off of where I do not like the rocker and improve it from there, starting on zero cut and increasing at the ends of the board, this way the cuts are blended smoothly.
The cuts going in one direction only and from left to right, winding up with tiny passes on one rail also helps create a less than smooth line along the bottom, it is the continuos flowing passes from nose to tail that make clean shapes.
This is not to be mean, but post 'em and ask how it is, rate the shaper, sort of like the guy Josh from Jax beach, another one who needs to keep his day job
Jim,
Thanks for the feedback. Once again this site and you pros have humbled me. I’ve got a long way to go.
One more question, By pre cleaning the blank, do you foil it before you draw the template?
Again, Thanks
“The cuts going in one direction only and from left to right, winding up
with tiny passes on one rail also helps create a less than smooth line
along the bottom, it is the continuos flowing passes from nose to tail
that make clean shapes.”
I’m glad to read that, too, as I have already seen others do it that way but always felt it was much more logical to work one half of the blank from rail to stringer, then the other side the same.
I’m not a big fan of “Freds tools”, either.
As for modifying the rocker, ever since I owned a planer with “on the fly” depth adjustment, I have been doing the same as Jim describes. Pretty intimidating at the beginning, but it just becomes a matter of listening to what the planer is doing. You end up shaping by ear as much as by eye.
I run all my foiling in the roughed out blank, once cut out there is very little to do but clean up what was left in the roughing.
Reverb got it, true and clean the deck lines, this becomes the reference point from there on, how do you get 2 rails and even rockers side to side if the deck is F’d up still, on short boards, I wait to seriously finish concaves until the plan shape is cut out.
I shaped like the kook I was at one time, Cleanlines was one of my test subjects through high school, but there comes a time when a man must become a man and step up to the plate and do the best job that God gave us the ability to do.
One of my shaping pals, great guy, but what a hack, he is finding that work had passed him by for more able craftsmen and when I hear of the lineage of who taught him, more great shaping hacks.
Hows the saying go? crap in, crap out
Hi,
First of all, thanks for spending your time watching the vid, and be sure, I’ll take all your comments in account.
But, let’s answer some comments:
MikeDaniel,
Yeah, I like the Rhynos. I’m used to them since they started producing in Brazil (former Bennett Foam). Unfortunatelly, the stringers are not always easy to smoth, mainly in the nose area. I gennerally use the surform to smoth the last edge and the close to nose area.
Reverb
I spend 1 - 1:15h to have a shape finished. 99% of my production is made of custom ones. I agree with you - it’s kind of robotic most of the time (after +25 years), but custumer are custumers, and they want what is now “fashion”. Once and while, some appear with a more openmind and accept to make something different, but it’s rare. So, let’s keep the business, mainly in these times.
Everyshaper
I have watched lots of shaping vids, and I could say everyone has a different approach to have the work done. That’s why I decided to put my own technique exposed, too. So, although some details have to be taken into account, shaping is more a matter of “how it ended” than “how do you get there”. And yes, I check the rocker, it only didn’t appeared in the vid, I had to cut off some parts.
Jimthegenius
Thanks…
Balsa,
I tested all these options of cutting (rail to stringer, rail to rail, rail to stringer inverted, etc), and know other shapers who have other different approaches (even the terrible transversal nose cutting). If they keep doing theirs, why should I change, too? Logical? Everybody knows some surfboard developments wasn’t born from logics. Fred’s tool is good for shortboards, not longs.
Jimthegenius,
“One of my shaping pals, great guy, but what a hack, he is finding that work had passed him by for more able craftsmen and when I hear of the lineage of who taught him, more great shaping hacks.”
Last week, I watched a report on tv showing a brand new pizza machine. You put a coin, choose the flavours, and voila’, your pizza is in the box ready to go home. Yeah, the pizzaiolos didn’t like it at all. This time is closer to shaper, too…
I find Utube to be pretty amazing. I can remember when Jim Was just starting out in High School. He was a good craftsman back then and NOBODY had ever showed him squat. Back then you had to figure it out for yourself or work your way up through the ranks in a board factory. The only guys that got a direct shot in to the Master’s shaping room were hot “name” surfers who sometimes never cut the mustard. Nowadays you can go online and see it all.Just last week I was cruising Utube and came across a 20 minute video of Terry Martin shaping a longboard. Harbour Surfboards has some good stuff up also.
Jim and I both did videos for Damascus Productions, He did 2 shaping films and I did one on glassing. I have no idea how many have been sold ( I did it for fun and to help out a young beginning filmaker) but I see a lot of our techniques on these Utube videos. I think it's cool as hell actually. I was watching a kid tape off a board in a Utube vid and he was using my exact methods.It made me think how I was actually just passing on what was taught to me by another glasser. You younger guys have it made. Between Swaylocks,Utube, and "how to videos" on the market you can make a nice board on the first try. R Brucker
Cleanlines, way to just blow away this whole thread with your stunning work. Love it. Loved your video. Love that little board. Please show more of it in another thread.
Regards, Greg
And I am not making this up.
“Why should I change”?.. Everything I learned, I learned from someone who was better than me, it at the time seemed like the logical approach, but seeing another shaper getting the job done better, the lights go on.
Before being taken under the wing of Tinker, I thinned the tails and noses EXACTLY the same way as you do, but there was a better, cleaner method of doing the same job
I used to blow out the stringers in the nose, then one day while visiting Quiet Flight, I was jawing with Richard Munson while he shaped, low and behold, he waited until the final pass going only down hill on the stick and no blow outs, why hadn’t I thought of that sooner.
Adapt or die on the vine
Youtube and other videos are OK, but there is nothing like watching a master shaper in actiion. Having one walk into your shaping room and telling you what a kook you are can be very good as a learning experience and very tough on your ego!
to jim phillips and roger brucker,
while you two are here on this thread i wanted to say thank you to you both for your willingness to share your knowledge and experience with others. the videos that the two of you have done have been immensely helpeful to me, and i just wanted to let you know that i am grateful. thank you.
brasco
jefferson
thanks for posting your vid. i have found that i can always learn at least one new thing from another person.
brasco
Hi Jim,
When I was younger, and I was really a novice at that time, I knew a very skilled shaper who used to shape the deck from rail to rail, but different of me, he started from the opposite rail, bringing the planner to his body side. It was really strange, and I tried it, but I felt uncomfortable with this technique.
Blow out stringers? It was a tough matter in the 90’s (thanks superbonder!), when noses were to much curved, following the new school crazyness. Wood quality and the way stringers were glued had an influence, too. I never blew out a nose with the electric planner, It always happened during the finishing process, due to the thin and curved aspect of that noses. I don’t see many problems nowadays…
Constructive criticism, feedback, and learning are all important aspects of this site. I hope you take what Jim Phillips is saying and learn from it. If your technique isn’t always improving, you’re just standing still. You can’t do that in this world, and it’s not near as much fun anyway. Guys like Jim (and me sometimes) may sound a little overbearing or hyper-critical, but it’s just because we want to pass along some of the knowledge we’ve gained. IMO Jim is one of the very best. See if you can get a look at his DVD and you’ll find out what I mean. We just want to help you shape better boards.
Ok,
You won! I will try to keep my ego a little quiet and review my concepts. Never is too late for learning. I guess it’s the spirit here in Swaylocks…My respects to all of you…
who is next?
…hello Jim,
“low and behold, he waited until the final pass going only down hill on the stick and no blow outs,”
Could you elaborate a bit more this sentence?
thanks
–hello Jeffshaper,
when I say custom I say many things like: not the same a “standard” shape (rocker) for someone who s stance is very low than for other who rides almost erected on the board and both trying to achieve the same type of maneouvers.
or keeping the thickness to the chest area and reduce it in the very tail, etc
so what I see in all those types of clips, is follow the blanks lines then round the rail lines and of course sign the shaped foam
in your clip you show that you re “retouching” the blank tail (1´-2´) rocker, and that is a custom factor (item) that is fine if the plug dont have the right dims…