I believe there are two separate things going on in this photo: Jick bottom, and cute bottom, the latter noted for its distinct lack of ripples.
Nutman: welcome back to the surfing world! Just do it my friend, don't even think twice about it. I had been out of the water for many years, when a good friend from the past showed up at my door with an extra board and an extra wetsuit. I was out of shape, but he made me paddle out at one foot Malibu at gunpoint. Well, longboard point. That was all it took. I now have 2 wetsuits, 9 boards, 2 more in the making, and more planned. Life is too full of the other stuff, and not enough surfing. You and I have to make up for lost time!
I was worried that the girl in this latest photo would upstage the board…oh well, by now (this current date) she is 15 years older so don’t get too excited about how she looks. By the way this Jick Bottom board hasn’t been ridden so it’s still fresh! As far as function of the Jick Bottom regardless of how it’s seen by science: the pattern can create lift across the entire bottom surface and suck in, from the sides even more water, which creates even more lift than any smooth surface ever could. During an aerial when the board lands back in the water it goes even faster. It excells in choppy blown-out conditions and the choppy surface of the water can increase the speed of the board. When a surfer puts pressure on the back of the board in a turn the board will increase in speed and the wake coming off the bottom of the board is like getting sprayed with a fire hose.
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I was worried that the girl in this latest photo would upstage the board...oh well, by now (this current date) she is 15 years older so don't get too excited about how she looks.
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No worries, that would never happen. Was there a board in that picture? Just kidding. I never get too excited about pictures of girls, or surfboards. I mean, really now.
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As far as function of the Jick Bottom regardless of how it's seen by science: the pattern can create lift across the entire bottom surface and suck in, from the sides even more water, which creates even more lift than any smooth surface ever could. During an aerial when the board lands back in the water it goes even faster. It excells in choppy blown-out conditions and the choppy surface of the water can increase the speed of the board. When a surfer puts pressure on the back of the board in a turn the board will increase in speed and the wake coming off the bottom of the board is like getting sprayed with a fire hose.
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I can't speak for the others, but myself, I am very skeptical about the 'scientific reasons' for surfboard design elements. I am much more in tune with experimentation based on empirical data: i.e., what the shaper has observed to work. And while I personally believe science / physics is useful in improving surfboard / fin performance, I never minimize the pivotal role of inspiration, intuition, and wild hunches. If this design element, or any other, works for someone, then its worthy of consideration, in my book.
Your right huckleberry you never quoted Glen Cat Collins…nobody could. I read the article you posted about Erle and Glen, and they’re still the same as I remember them before. I do hear from Erle from time to time…usually when there’s about to be a tsunami here in Hilo, Hawaii he calls me up to find out if we’re all still alive. Erle’s a good friend of mine and I respect his achievements.
The Jick Bottoms I made and may make? in the future were as simple as I could make them. I believe that a multi-channeled bottom design needs to be as simple as possible. Did you ever hear about random chaos? Well this is what nature is, what waves are when anything is created by the wind. If a simple multi-channeled surfboard bottom is shaped like random chaos, then it should work well in any medium that IS random chaos…do you get it?
All smooth bottom surfboards have directional water flow because of the placement of the fins and the direction that any wave is moving. A Jick Bottom channel pattern composed of directional random chaos has the water flowing in whatever direction the channels are shaped, the direction and placement of the fins and whatever direction the wave is moving.
The Glasser’s and Sander’s I know would Bitch till the cows came home. I remember those designs I’m just glade I never had to sand one done by a pissed off glasser or by a hot coater who was pissed at me. That is a $100 sand job. Very cool looking and would create water turbulence in the flow of water. I would think the faster the wave the more ya would feel its effects.
I have good news for all the sanders out there!!! The Jick Bottoms are never sanded on the bottom. We only need to sand the deck of the board, the rails and the lap from the top glass for two inches on the bottom of the board. The early boards I made were sanded on the bottom and it was a nightmare! So I mastered my bottom glassing so well that I never had to sand the bottom again. One of the main secrets was after the bottom was laminated, about two hours after it had gone off I painted a light coat of laminating resin on the fresh laminate>to make sure the weave was filled. Then a light hot coat was applied after that or a finish coat. The trick is to make sure the resin gels quickly and doesn’t form puddles in the channels and of course no drips allowed.
I am super new to this and mostly a lurker on this board soaking up knowledge in prep for my first HWS build. I don’t know much about fluid dynamics.
I am involved in ski racing and I do know that without a structure pattern on the bottom of the ski, it will be the slowest thing on the hill. I always wondered why the bottom of surfboards were almost always flat. I had chalked it up to my lack of knowledge and the fact that in my limited experiance, I hadn’t seen it done.
I think this thread is very interesting and the similar forces that make a ski slow or fast may apply to a surfboard. The channels are made in the ski bottom to move water out of the way, if they were not there you would have stiction. There are also multiple structure patterns and the pattern chosen is dictated by snow conditions.
This link explains it much better than I ever could.
Right-on mpm 32, I always wondered if snow skis had grooves. Thank you for your input, it’s good to know how even the smallest patterns can have such a profound effect on the performance of snow skis. Like the grooves on any well made car tire, the grooves on a surfboard will create greater lift, control and speed, as well as the ability to stop abruptly and then accelerate again.
This stuff is ridiculous. No proof it works. No following. No ride reports, just alot of hype by one person. Who stated that he himself has only surfed ten years and hasn't qualified himself as a shaper. So they were perfected in Hawaii? Ten years of living there surfing and shaping never even heard of 'em, let alone seen one. But oh yeah! They're the latest and greatest. I'm sure we'll see kelly and all the Pros on 'em soon just like nut-job said.
The guy is sharing something he's stoked about. The design has been around for close to 40 years. Its been discussed on Swaylocks at least since 8 years ago, and has been featured in numerous surf mags over the years, the latest being the Nov./Dec. 2011 issue of Smorgasboarder online magazine interview with Glen Collins. Established shapers like George Gall have expressed interest. Gordon Hansen and Tom Morey have been associated with the design in some capacity. Earle Pederson and Glen Collins are the current shapers, not the macadamia man (whom I suspect is the original "Jick" the board is named after).
Simon Chipper (I think this is Ben Chipper's - "chipfins" on swaylocks - brother) has pics on surfresearch.com of a 1978 model he owned.
David Platt said: "When I was a teenager growing up living and surfing at Whale Beach on Sydneys Northern beaches in the 70's. One of the guys we hung around with was a guy named Jick Mebane. I'm not sure if that is the correct way to spell his 2nd name. Anyway he was an American and he was a friend of Earl Pederson. Earl was out there as far as shaping was concerned. He showed Jick how to shape these weird bottoms.
"The best way to describe them is, next time you are walking on the beach and a wave washes up and receeds, look at the pattern that is momenteraly left in the sand by the water.... Jick was also an agent for the W.A.V.E hollow surfboards. I believe he returned to the USA and inherited a Macadamia farm in Hawaii somewere."
The guy isn't selling anything. He's a surfer/shaper who is pumped on this design, and posted up to share. Its just food for thought, something different, outside the box. Dimpled bottoms, channeled bottoms, etc. have long been a subject of legitimate interest to some shapers. Whether "Kelly and all the pros" ride one doesn't mean anything to some of us. Its obviously not for everyone, and will likely never be mass-produced or marketed by the corporate media.
No harm no foul. Variety is the spice of life. I say "welcome to Swaylocks, and welcome back to surfing/shaping!"
Thanks Huckleberry for backing me up yes the “nutman” is the real Jick Mebane yes that’s me and I’m not trying to sell anything here. I just wanted to open up the possibilities to others who may be in a position to take advantage of something different that does really work but can’t and probably won’t ever be mass produced.
I knew Simon Chipper when I was in Australia. He took some great photos of me surfing at Whale Beach on Erle Pedersen’s Kewarra Jet Bottoms. Where is Simon now? I never met his brother.
For the skeptic out there I surfed for 40 years and shaped for 20 but now I’m working on my family’s macadamia nut farm and selling nuts, spices and books at the Hilo Farmers Market. I’m 63 years old and I’d like to go back to surfing, but neck problems, from hitting the bottom on my head while surfing at Whale Beach many years ago have caught up with me.
I would never have known about Swaylock’s and discussions going on here, as well as discussions about my boards back in 2004, but my brother in Arizona sent me an email a couple of days ago. He said I should check it out…and so here I am.
Hi Jick, Ben Chipper is a creative mind, photographer, fin-maker, and regular here on Swaylocks, but he's been awol a bit lately, rumored to be surfing, making fins, doing what he loves. He has mentioned that he has a surfer brother named Simon, who is also still active surfing, as far as I know.
Hilo, eh? Many years ago I spent some time on the Big Island, seems to me there was an occasional rideable wave there, over on the Kona side. Man, I still think about those guava smoothies we used to have every morning! Pick 'em up along the roadside during the day, pop 'em in the blender next morning. Nothing better.
Sorry to hear about the neck problems, would a surf-mat be an option? Lot of guys swear by 'em. I'm 56, and started back surfing a little over 2 years ago, after many years away (I was pretty core back in the day, but that was a long road back). And so glad I did, even 'tho its been a bit of an uphill battle for this over the hill grommet LOL.
Now that you know about Swaylocks, don't be a stranger. I'm sure you have a lot of experiences and insights to share - the shaping underground needs guys like you and McDing. Love to see some of the pics from your archives - bet you've got some doozys.
I don’t know about riding a surf mat. I have a lot of good friends that surf the local east side break called Honolii. They’ve been trying to encourage me to return to the water and surf with them. Honolii is a river mouth surf break with lefts breaking off the point and rights breaking into the mouth of the river. There’s also a right and left peak down the beach called “privates” I don’t think it’s as private as it used to be. We also have the longest left point break in the state–Hilo bayfronts–a spot they say King Kamehameha used to surf back in the really old days, it breaks on a north-northeast swell.
I’m really busy these days prepping for the Market and working there twice a week, but my friends are always stopping by on their way to Honolii when I’m working. My neck gets really sore if I surf and has gotten worse when I have to pick spices from our clove tree. I don’t even have to get into the water and I’m hurting.
People are always asking me if I can shape them a Jick Bottom…or telling me that they found one to ride. I could shape the bottom into a board that has already been made and the cost and time it takes would lower and quicker.
The pictures I could take at the moment would only be pictures of pictures. I’ll try to find some original material. Huckleberry–those pictures of Erle Pedersen’s board’s which you posted were awesome.
So, Hilo has surf! Now we all know, hahaha. Pictures of pictures is OK - all the old pics were film anyway, so digital pics of the film pics is the only way to share on the internet. Take a bunch and send 'em to ChrisP, let him post 'em up for us! Surfing history is our second favorite topic here, next to surfboard design. You were in the thick of it, man. We'd love to see some more pics from your collection.
I’ll get to the photos later today or tomorrow, they’re hanging on my wall at my house. Right now it’s 5:05 am in Hilo and I need to get ready to go to work at the Farmers Market at 6 am. Did I mention I wrote a book? It’s called “I Know You The Show Is Over” by Jicky Mebane. Sorry it’s not about surfing. It’s about everybody! It’s one of the reasons I started working at the market. When you self publish a book where can you go to sell it and meet people face to face?
The book starts on January 1st and goes all the way to December 31st in leap year. It’s not astrology and it’s very accurate. It doesn’t explain people by gender or religion and the year a person is born doesn’t matter. I’ll ask you what’s your birthday and tell you who you are? The Hilo Farmers Market is right across the street from Hilo Bay. My fellow vendor Jerry who makes surfboards here in Hilo will be there today and he’s supposed to be looking for a used board for me.
So Swaylock’s IS ABOUT surfing history? I hope I can fill in some of the blanks on the history of surfing in the future? Anybody out there ever surf the 7 jetty’s in Ventura? I was there from the time before they ever existed until 1972. When they built Ventura Harbor, the north harbor jetty had some great surf (this was before they ever built the breakwater across the mouth of the harbor). There was a wave on the North side of the jetty called the Ventura Wedge. It was a left. I haven’t been there since 1972, that’s when I went to Australia. Does the North Ventura Harbor Jetty still have a wedge-like left?
Hi Jick. David Platt here. Not sure if you remember me from the Whale Beach days. I use to hang around with a bunch of guys. Mark Dever, Steve Tague, Brad Witchard. We were all about 10 years younger than you. We always took a short cut to the beach via your little flat under that house on Whale Beach rd. That flat was a real hub. There was always something going on there. Lots of talk about surfboards and building surfboards. Lots of pre surf entertainment around your coffee table. I remember the day Earl turned up with some of his boards. The ones that resembled birds and we went down and surfed them.
I'm not sure where I found this Simon Chipper image of you surfing the Wedge at Whale Beach. It has been in my image files for a while now. I think I went looking for images last time the Jick bottom thread surfaced. Good to have you onboard at Swaylocks at last. platty.
Well when you get a chance tell JG Lowel said hello. Ask him about the "golfball" bottoms he used to do. Similar to your "jick bottoms". They never caught on either. Lowel
Interesting thread. But I have a couple of questions and observations:
I noticed that in nature all of the dunes, beach ripples etc. seem to be 90 degrees to the flow of the wind and or water, so why are these Jick bottoms set up to be 180 degrees to the flow?
I remember the golf ball dimple bottoms…If they worked the way dimples work on a golf ball flying through the air…that would create lift like the airfoil of an airplane wing right? So the guy was trying to lift the tail of the board?
The Jick bottoms pictured here seem to be attempting to control flow in some way…accelerate it…decelerate it…compress it…???
What about an attempt at a “controlled” disruption of the flow?? I mean allegedly a sanded bottom surfboard vs. a polished bottom is faster. This is apparently achieved by the sanded bottom creating some kind of miniscule disruption along the surface of the fiberglass vs the water. I’m no engineer so I apologize if I’m not using the proper scientific jargon or terms. Seems this is now a widely accepted fact.
I have often wondered about a “washboard” shape in the tail approximately the same area of the hard edge layout of the modern thruster/shortboard. Experimenting with different sized “teeth” and spacing etc.i.e., the Jick bottom turned at 90 degrees vs 180 degrees. Surely someone has tried this right???
