The ocean contains life. The ocean is not itself alive, It’s not a sentient being, it doesn’t think or remember you. Some of the mysticism surfers come up with boggles the mind. No one loves surfing more than I do or feels deeply about the art form, but I know what it is and what it clearly is not becasue I choose to live in reality. It has nothing to do with no developing some sixth sense anymore than the prophets can actually predict Jacks going to ***t. If something is revelation to one person…when he tells it to another it’s not a revelation…but hearsay.
I was talking about intuition, which may apply to the discussion when a surfer looks at the ocean (or sea) and decides which board to ride. Solosurfer, no offence intended, sorry. : ) By the way I enjoy reading your posts. Anyway, getting back to the discussion, does anyone know the exact dimensions of the board kelly used to win Teahupoo? Nose, width, tail, rocker, the works? I used to have a 5'10" X 12 1/2" X 20 1/2" X 15" double bump swallow 6" tip to tip quad, which I got for small summer surf and ended up loving it in head high to overhead down the line tubes instead. I believe a well designed quad works great in the tube...
I am objective and I am apt to change my mind when proven wrong, but I know surfboards are not only not the same…but not a single surfboard rides like the next. That’s always just been a marketing deal. Like a great shaper once told me, " there is voodoo in the foam. " Nothing hand made even be exactly like the next same tempated shape.
I thought the guy who won the Eddie on quad was pretty awesome. However…it doesn’t really validate them for me as it was that surfer, the way that surfer weights and unweights, the rail line, rocker, planshape and fin set up etc. Sell that same board to the next pro and he hates it. It’s always been that way.
I’m open if you can show me more than a couple of " minor " adjustments that make the quads I used to ride in the 90’s while everyone else was on Elf shoe chip thrusters are different. I’m open to see these big changes you talk about. To me…the plan shapes are similar, the McKee set up is nothing new, the bottoms on most are similar, rails and etc. Adjustable fin boxes are about the only thing new the last few years and I don’t think the average surfer uses that either. I dismiss only the claims of greatness because Slater and others ride them. Quads ride like quads ride. You might get a magic one, but you never could really replicated magic. They are no more or less valid today than yesterday or tomorrow…when Slater rides something else in a contest and wins and everyone starts saying it’s now validated. Like they were starting to with short and wide boards.
I used to have my own set up…twin fin size in front, small fins in back but closer to the stringer. I never saw it in a magazine or even asked my shaper his opinion. I told him where to put the fins and the board worked unreal…for me and my ability. Slater rode those elf shoe chips and did well on them. No one else rode them worth a crap and frankly I think they came close to ruining the modern surfboard. They damn sure ruined blanks for awhile since every bandwagon geek and there brother was bending over backwards to see if they could sell the next big Slater event.
Slater experimenting shows me one thing. That he needs to help create some more energy for his brand for the time when he decides to retire. The surf culture, industry and etc. isn’t nice to retired pros. Even guys like Slater if they haven’t saved their pennies. I promise you Slater doesn’t have more money than I can count. I deal with small business every year that make more in six months than Slater has made in his entire career.
You want to see how well surfing pays…look at what some of these guys, even in our modern pay scale make over their entire careers…then devide by the amount of time they were on the tour. In many cases it’s close to a $50,000 a year sales job with no guaranteed retirement when they quit doing well on the tour or get in trouble because of the callousness of the business folk that run the industry. Oh…and when one of them claims " Jesus " in their business rhetoric…best put your hand on thy wallet also.
If some of you want to pretend there is some toon town called a surfing world as portrayed by the industry at trade shows, corporate magazines or written by many self proclaimed gurus…it is a free world. Reality is much different.
I wish Slater would win a contest on a 70’s single like Ghettorat said and watch as the Avatar world inhabitants all start jumping on them and calling them new like they did in a small way when Machado and Tudor jumped on them.
No offense taken on any post in this thread. I enjoy the input. There is a definite intuition. Shaun Tompson talked about it in his tube riding in the early years. Said he felt he was willing the waves to let him in and back out again. Energy can be transmuted. It’s pretty much been proven. Napoleaon Hill in his book, " think and grow rich " speaks about it in detail.
Noel what you’re saying about Slater and quads is a mirror of Cheyne and McCoys to me.
Cheyne is always (to this day) shown as the surfer who ripped on McCoys and has inspired many to buy a McCoy.
Yet to see video evidence of any average surfers ripping on any McCoy.
Haven’t seen a surfer on the Sunshine coast ripping on a McCoy since I saw one guy out at 4-6’ Noosa boiling pot riding a non-Nugget McCoy back in the early 2000’s.
There are lots of different reasons people surf and just as many styles of surfing. Kelly brings credibility to equipment in the eyes of some. Hell, you should have heard the threats of law suits from FCS when Kelly got the cover of ER way back in 01' useing Red X fins. So, there's no denying that he appeals to some and is not appreciated by those that feel the commercialism of our sport is rotting its soul.
What I got out of Kelly's choice of fin set up and Luke Egan pointed out was that the back fins were about the same size as the fronts. That combined with the McKee positioning would have given a lot of control to just about any shape. And, I think I recall him saying it was a 5'8". That's a pretty small board for Teahupoo over head. I've gotta believe that all that fin area really helped with control.
Since I predominantly surf Lowers, I like moving the trailing fin out to the rail and drafted behind the front fins (with a smaller template) on a wide tail.It seems to me this setup reduces drag in two ways. At shallower angles of attack the trailing fins are are drafting in the turbulence coming off the leading fins. As you turn tighter the trailing fin engages cleaner water as it pivots around the front fins and become more efficient. So, they don't wash out as easily as a thruster. This helps carry more speed through tighter turns. But, it also makes recoveries a bit more difficult than on a thruster.
In open ocean island power, I definitely prefer my thrusters. They are more forgiving. Now maybe if I had a board with a McKee setup for the islands, I might prefer that. But, I don't get over there often enough to get a new board built to leave over there. Maybe the extra drive in powerful waves would provide more speed. But, just think about how strong Kelly's paddling ability has to be on that little 5'8" with all that fin area and a pulled round pin. And, then to be able to just carve those cut backs at speed after being blown out the barrel. Naw I'll stick to my 6'8" thruster for Hawaii.
Sorry, I don't have any more dimensions than the length. But, I've got to imagine that you've got to be one hell of a good surfer to make that board work in those waves.
I'm not trying to pick on you Billywillgo so I'll try to explain my comments. You base your whole thread as a rebuttal to people who have talked down about quads. Who cares what other people think? If quads work for you, that's great AND, that's all that should really matter. **"quads are as good, if not better, than thrusters"** Each design has it's own merrit and conditions that it works best in. Also, each individual surfer has a design of board that best suits their surfing whether for progression or fun. Slater winning a contest does not change what works best for me or you or anyone at all.
It’s seems beyond doubt Kelly is the best contest surfer, but best surfer… I’d argue, by the contest standards he enters. Maybe he’s waiting to move onto the newly formed big wave contest cuircut, who knows… This is a good party though.
Great to see you come out of the wood work Tom. As usual, you share good insights. I think I’m fiddling around with my rear quad fins to find the most control I can, while retaining as much of the high, deep, speed inherent in the close cluster, edge fin set up. Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but I’ve become a 4-way convert - the adjustabilltiy, along with my “customized” fins, are providing, so far, endless fun and options to test.
It’s great to hear that you’re exploring there variables. Many of the McKee setups have smaller more symetrically foiled trailing fins set parallel and closer to the stringer. So, you only get the second trailing fin out of the flow when you are really on rail.
Cosidering how much fin Kelly was running. As he was trimming in the barrel with all that water pushing up the face, I’m sure there was a lot of engagement of the outside trailing fin in the flow. Any surfer would really need to be a step ahead to make sure the wave and board did not start controlling them. Especially, when you get high and tight on the face in the barrel. You’ve got to start to trim up and then as the wave starts carrying you up drive hard down before it just wants to take you over.
When I started riding the close fore/aft edge alignment (Much thanks to Robin “Hand shaper” Mair) it was on long guns and, like I had be doing on my McKee esq. set ups, with four full size fins. In fact I was using 50/50 center fins in the back. I say that to say, like you point out about what Kelly my have been feeling, I was getting so much drive (I had only done the McKee type set up on my small wave boards, so it’s hard to say how it would have felt on bigger waves.) and high, and steep in the pocket speed it was insane. But, it did decrease my ability to do turns as sharp as I had when the guns were tri fins… Then I reviewed my notes and tried smaller fins in back… First I used some side bites… lost some drive, and with the standard rake, the turns were more drawn out than I wanted… That led to my move into customizing my rears - more area than the side bites, but less than a full size fin, and little, if any,rake = got much of the drive back, and turning sharper than as a tri… STOKE!!!
Thanks again for all the good info over the years Tom. You are right up there when it comes to those who’ve helped my understanding of the fin/board interaction.
ha Ha…you must admit…the skinny little blanks were about worthless for shaping eggs and fish and channeled shortboard surfing almost exclusively into skinny little chip elf shoes for awhile… ; ) See Rick Bullock interview on my Blogzine…he agrees. BTW MIke…I doubt any of the stuff you have ever worked on would ruin anyone’s surfing. Likely jus the opposite.
Economizing on outline width for the blanks did limit the choices, true. There were some old blanks that were discontinued as the newer ones came in, and I think there was one that Bullock liked in there, lol.
What's funny is that it wasn't but about three weeks after the rocker chips became de rigueur before people starting asking for small wave specialty boards. The shorter, wider thing (and the word ''fish'') started up. This was in 92 or so.
Enough hijacking, I'll let you guys get back to debating the merits of quads.
In reality, it wasn't a whitewash, the final. Owen was pretty close and the ocean usually plays a part, he will probably win his fair share. I doubt anyone will match what Kelly has done and is still doing. NP jnr is only riding quads at the moment, [at the moment]. I don't know about dunny doors, but really really good surfers can usually rip on what they want to, dont forget Glen Winton when you talk about four fins, cheers H.
Mike, yes you did. And I remember telling GL that I wanted one. And the nose had to have some vee in it for reasons I don’t remember. I think I was wearing bell bottomed pants when I asked him for it.
