Hey guys.
Has anybody used ATL’s Kinetix R104 surfboard epoxy over poly foam??
This epoxy is sold through shapers australia.
What were the results good or bad??
I want to use epoxy but like shapeing poly blanks.
Cheers
yehh this is a laminating resin
just glass board as normal but rember not to overwork
give board a scuff whith a white scourer wash over whith warm water
when dry filler coat whith poly sand & finish
sweet’
I was going to use the epoxy for the filler coat as well.
Hopefully it will dry hard enough to sand.
Have heard a lot of bad reports about poly over epoxy.
What do others do to finish epoxy???
I want to do a sanded finish.
I have a spay set-up for speed finishes, but I don’t have a very good ventalation system.
I’m a bit scared of burning down my garage with all the fumes and electrics in my room.
Was also thinking of a waterbased finish spray.
Will have to look into it a bit more.
Any advise???
Cheers
mds the r 104 is for lam. only ring atl composite they will tell you same
a little white scourer abit warm water the poly filler resin will stick will sand best
and i would finish coat the board then wet rub much beter.
this epoxy resin was made specialy for laminatin
those damn urthane sprays no good for health
what boards i have done this method are fine
huie
rememberto post cure before filler when laminating try not to leave resin floating nice and neat
yell out if theres a problom
huie
heya huie
that doesnt sound quite right to me
there no reason why you cant put down the filler while the lam is still curing using the same resin
its pretty standard practise for most epoxies
i can only assume that the 104 has a lot of blush
i usually do my filler coat using same epoxy ,2 hours after the lam on the deck
and on the bottom i let it cure first and sand the weave and use the same epoxy laminating resin for the filler
heres a hint for the urethane
run a normal fan pointing out the window and use a gravity feed gun with a thick spray
paul it is a laminating resin designed for just that . if you want to use it to fillercoat use additives
but this resin was made for the purpose i discribed
this is a far different epoxy than a lot i have used in the past
as i said ring A T L PAUL untill they get the whole epoxy thing right we will just have to wing it
huie
love to have a looksee to see what you mean
maybe they mean sanding addditives or something
id definitely try a few test runs as a filler on semi cured lam coat though
paul read my pm to you
be happy
huie
mds have you used epoxy before ATL should be closer to you
and will give you the right advice
ifyou want epoxy all the way you will need aditives from them i repeat R104 is a laminating resin
huie
Hey Huie
I haven’t used epoxy before but it will help my marrage if I start. No smell, apparently.
I didn’t know you could get additives for it.
Does ATL have these addatives???
I have looked around a bit for different epoxy systems and ATL seemed to be one of the better ones.
Shapers Oz distribute the stuff so it must be OK.
I remember read about mixing your own addatives for epoxy.
Has anyone done this?? and what were the results??
Cheers
G’day mds,
Like Huie says this is a laminating resin and the good folk at ATL tell you not to put any additives in their resin. So I thought I would do just that and make up a filler out of it to see what happened.
The world didn’t end and it flowed out beautifully and hardened with a nice sheen, easy to sand as well.
This resin was designed to be used with polyester filler coat, but it is still an epoxy and you still need to prep your lam coat well to take the poly filler.
This is an excellent resin with no odour lots of working time and it is water clear as well as uv stable.
I lam one of my team guys boards with this resin because he is a notorious surfboard abuser. 4 oz bottom 6+4 deck and 5 oz carbon tail patch and the board is as light 4 bottom 4+4 deck.
The only drawbacks are the dry time and the price.
As Huie also said even though they say this a room temp cure resin it is much better post cured. IMO.
It is also supposed to be blush free but it still needs to be rub down with a scourer and water.
Hope that helps.
Regards
Daren
Hey Entity
So what did you put in it???
And would you do it again???
Also how did you finish it??
Sanded finish, polish or speed finish??
Cheers
G’Day Entity
Like mds I’m keen to hear how you did the epoxy fillacoat. Just started my first board using ATL’s resin and would agree with the post-cure comments. Spoke to Andy ( I think ) at ATL and He indicated that it was possible to fillacoat with R104 but talked down the additive possibilities. I really would like to use R104 through the whole lam/filla process on this board.
Any clues much appreciated.
Cheers Mooneemick
G’day Mooneemick,
The additives I put in the kinetix is just xylene and paraffin wax. ( 5% paraffin in xylene and about 3-5% in the resin).
Flows out really well and is easy to sand.
Haven’t tried a fill coat without the xylene wax mix, cant see why it wouldn’t sand out well though. the lam coat seems to sand really well.
The board below was done entirely with ATL kinetix 104, lam and filler.
Surfblanks blue polyurethane 4oz bottom 4+4 deck comes in at 5 1/2 lb with fins.
The deck fill coat I let cure at room temp and it dried beautifully, the bottom I put it in the hotbox at fifty degrees just as it started to kick and it dried like it was a poly filler put out in the sun to dry. But both sides still sanded out well.
Hope thats of some help
Daren
Hey Daren
Thanks for the info will give it a run over the weekend. Really impressed with what I’ve seen so far of the R104. Seems we’ve been a little product starved in the epoxy department in Oz. Finally some quality, surfboard specific epoxy locally manufactured.
Checked your web site , you’ve got some really nice clean shapes on there some of which you will no doubt be putting to good use on the beautiful south coast this weekend.
Thanks again
Mooneemick
the more and more i read this fill coat stuff them more i see problems
okay xylene and wax additives
wax is added to polyester resin so it rises to the surface to enable a full cure
if you dont put the wax in the resin has a thin layer of uncured resin
why would this be applicable for epoxy
its a different chemical reaction.
adding xylene only creates holes in the chain and weakens the epoxy
it also lowers its hardness and thermal resistance
i cant see this as being a true solution and its not a system used in other industrys
okay next
polyester fill coat
now this ones a quick fix for adtech australia
they released a product without a solution for a clear fill coat
why
because in boatbuilding they add balloons to improve sanding
not possible for surfboards for cosmetic reasons
and there resin obviously doesnt sand well enough to be practical as a fill coat in the surfboard industry
this would have a great deal to do with machine speeds and grits used
but also thermal stability of the resin
in other words the resin is fine for a fill coat
but the industry couldnt cost effectively handle the added work time and extra care needed to prevent overheating
so there quick fix
oh stick some poly over the top
well forget about the fact that bond will be crap and it will chip off over time from flexing etc
but lets not worry cuz the board will be dead in a year anyway
there absolutely no way that they would use poly in this way on say a 250,00 dollar yacht
or any boat for that matter
has anyone thought of pinholes
oh yeah big mushy spots in your blank from the eps being dissolved from the poly resin getting through the pins
imo the kinetics resin without additives will be a greatly superior bonding/strength and waterproofing
but will require extra time and care to sand
kintex r 104 a laminating epoxy
used corectly no pin holes
heres one
best of luck huie
huie
is that a polyurethane blank?