Anyone who is wondering about the benefits of a heavier wooden board should check out the Laird Hamilton interview at Surfermag.com. Laird’s favourite tow in boards are timber and some of them weigh over 20 pounds, which is a lot for a very small board. It’s all there plus other interesting stuff.
I dont know where to find it, but isnt the weight supposed to be heavier to get more speed down the face on bigger waves? And I dont think it would help much on small waves. would it?
Knowing that Laird Hamilton surf in the same wave conditions we do, knowing that he gets into waves with this boards as we use to do (with a jet ski), and that he has the same surfing skills we have, and knowing also that our weight and shape is the same as Laird Hamilton’s i think all we must surf the same boards he does.
I just finish the work on my fish for today, but now i feel like i’m loosing my time.
Roy do you have more information about those boards? Tomorrow i’ll shape mine.
21:55 here in Galicia, time to have dinner… ummm i’m considering a 30 egg dinner with some protein shakes, i must be ready for my new board.
Good night.
Hi Newshaper,
this link will take you to the forum discussion about the interview "]http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=546230&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
and this link will take you to the interview itself
http://surfermag.com/features/onlineexclusives/lairdintrvu/
The advantages of a heavy timber board apply just as well to small waves, the principles are exactly the same, but the size and shape of the board will change.
It doesn’t sound logically that a heavier board could perform equally in small surf. Yes, there would be pros but the cons would have to severely outweigh the general/common objectives for shortboard usage. Swing, transition, float, etc.
Respectfully,
HerbB
There are always going to be ifs, buts, and maybes about any idea.
The advantages of a heavy wooden board apply to small waves as well as large waves, and so do any disadvantages.
The disadvantage of a heavy wooden board is that it is not as handy for doing tricks. This applies to big waves and small.
My point is that for basic functional surfing, involving speed and good control, a big heavy board is better.
Have you read the interview? It is very interesting, and it is no coincidence that Laird likes heavy timber boards for exactly the same reasons as I do, and which I have expressed on this forum. Wave size is a ‘red herring’
Quote:
and it is no coincidence that Laird likes heavy timber boards for exactly the same reasons as I do, and which I have expressed on this forum. Wave size is a 'red herring'
Wave size may be a red herring, but the fact that he’s being towed-in (so pre-plane float and paddle ability are not issues) and that he’s travelling much faster are significant differences. Not to mention, his rationale for the heavy boards was also to help reduce the effects of high winds.
Howzit Roy, I jusy finished doing a fin repair on a balsa tow board that belongs to 2 of our lifeguards. The board weighed more than 20 lbs. One of the guys weighs more than the other by about 30 lbs. The lighter of the 2 says the board hops dropping in for him but not for the heavier guy, so they are adding some extra weight for the smaller of the two. I don’t think they’re thinking about tricks when dropping into a 60 -70 ft face at Kings reef . Aloha, Kokua
Hi Rufus,
The advantages of a heavy wooden board apply to boards of different sizes. I did not say that Laird’s tow in board would be good for small waves. For paddling, the board should be bigger.
Regarding high winds, they are also a factor to be considered on small waves.
Regarding high speed, the effect of hitting chop on a very big board at lower speed is comparable to that of hitting chop at high speed on a smaller board. The big board magnifies the effect. Thus the advantages of weight apply in both cases (But not for trick surfing)
On the topic my opinion about surfing is not about doing tricks! too me its crusing, gliding, having fun! but each to their own i guess.
I like wood boards I also like foam boards.
Josh.
“The plural of ‘anecdote’ is not ‘data’.”
Mike Quear, US Congressional staffer
Hi Keith,
I had a feeling that I wouldn’t be allowed to agree with Laird’s findings! Surely I am not extrapolating an anecdote if I point out that the advantages of weight and timber may be applied to a variety of surfing situations? After all, I am supporting what I say with logic and experience!
Forgive me please, if I have misunderstood your quote.
Laird says an air pocket on the side of the fin is cavitation… IT’S NOT. Cavitation is not air bubbles at all, it’s water vapor, literally the water boils due to low pressure. Low pressure on the side of a submerged object can/will draw in air if there’s a free surface near enough, but surfers don’t operate at a sufficiently high speed to experience cavitation. You will get cav around a propellor, or in a centrifugal pump, where the speeds are high enough, but again I say, not surfing.
Laird says “suck and hold will give you the bends”… NOT THAT’S NOT HOW THE BENDS HAPPEN. Anyone certified SCUBA diver should know that dissolved nitrogen (mostly) in the bloodstream is what causes the bends; you can’t get the bends within breath-hold time, at any practical depth.
Makes me wonder if he’s gotten it a few too many times.
Laird’s comments on board weight are also similar to those expressed by Tom Wegener and Joel Tudor, who, as everyone knows, are longboarders.
If a person takes a lungful of pressurised air when they are thirty feet down, won’t they ‘blow up’ when they come to the surface if they don’t release some of that air? Perhaps Laird is talking about lung bursting rather than the bends. I notice that he points out that the natural tendency of surfers is to hold their breath.
About cavitation, does it make a practical difference whether we are talking about cavitation or air entrainment? Either way the fin is going to be malfunctioning. I doubt if Laird has time to be backside up and head down examining the composition of the gas trailing from one of his fins!
At what speed is cavitation possible on a typical tow in board fin? Please explain.
I am under the impression that Laird is in full command of his mental faculties, and that you are basically casting doubt upon his intelligence because his terminology is imperfect.
Roy,
You’re very loyal to your passion…
Best,
Herb
Someone please explain the point of this thread to me. I am having a hard time understanding how Laird’s opinions on tow board weight relate to paddle in board weight. Please go easy on me as I am not a rocket scientist, just a regular old surfer.
Hello Stash, did you read the interview? What Laird says about heavy small boards riding big waves corresponds with what some of us have experienced with heavy bigger boards on smaller waves. It’s no big secret, just stability in chop and wind and a few other points.
Yes. In fact I read it two more times to be sure I wasn’t missing some piece of hidden information. I take for granted a properly weighted (heavier) board will glide smoother through chop than a lighter copy of the same thing (this has been discussed ad nauseum). So what is your point?
Roy, I find it interesting that you chose that interview to back your postition on heavy wooden boards. This is Laird’s reply to the first question he was asked:
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If you look at the modern towboard it's really similar, in design expectation, to the boards that Andy Irons or Kelly Slater, guys like that are riding. They are narrower and…someone like myself, I'm six-two and a half, my boards are around six-two and a half. Widths are below 16 inches wide, single concaves, concaves in general seem to be working pretty well…inch and a half, inch and three-quarters, inch and 5/8ths thick. I prefer solid wood boards, a spruce stringer and balsa wood.
The only similarities I can find to how you’ve described your boards in past threads and Laird’s towboards is that they are both wood and both proportionately heavy for their size.
Those towboards are purpose-built for a specific type of wave and motorized assist into the wave. They don’t have to worry about paddling characteristics as you would with a paddle-in board. Look at the boards used at Waimea and Mavericks. They resemble paddleboards moreso than traditional surfboards, and for just that reason. They are made for paddling speed to get into the wave.
Wood definitely has dampening characteristics that most people are aware of, hence the prolific use of wooden stringers. That does not mean they need to be heavy to dampen the ride.The towboards are using weight to provide momentum through the chop that was initially provide by the jet skis. With paddle in boards you must provide that initial momentum with your paddling stregth, thus the advantage of having a lighter paddle in board.
Cool interview, thanks for the link.
Laird was talking about weight being an advantage during the ride, not just while being towed, and that is why his six footers weigh 20+ pounds not 5 pounds! Weight is very necessary for chop dampening, and for surfing in windy conditions, and this applies to any board. Big boards need more weight because there is more area to catch wind, and chop affects a big board more also. Paddling in only becomes difficult with heavy boards if buoyancy is lacking. Once again I must point out that other longboarders have found weight to be an advantage.
All the best, Roy