Is there any difference laminating multiple layers of epoxy and glass at once vs one layer at a time?
I have done it both ways, and I have less headaches doing one layer at a time, but it’s slower.
With all things being equal would two identical boards be just as strong?
I haven’t really damaged the boards I’ve done to tell if there is any value one way or the other.
Please Advise?
Thanks in advance!
Josh
doing it all at once uses less epoxy, and makes a tighter bond. Doing it one layer at a time adds more weight, but no harm to the structural strength of the board.
Man up and do 3 layers at once!!
Where have you been resinhead?
I had expected to run into you on one of these south swells to show the end products of all my lurking here on sways.
Anyway, you are always daring me to screw up. I’m scared to do three layers at a time.
Two I can handle, but one at a time I can pull real tight with no bubbles and hidden crevices.
Good to know. Thanks!
Josh
Definitely possible but why?
I used to do 3 layers of 7.5 oz. at once for knee wells in my old kneeboards (1970’s). But with catalyzed resin I was always afraid I’d get caught with a quick batch. I didn’t measure all to carefully back then, just “oh about one capful for that much”. Still, pulled it off okay.
Nowadays with suncure and the super control of working and set time that stuff affords, three layers is do-able. Still, it’s a humbug to get all the bubbles out of the underlying layers, and I don’t do more than two layers of 6 ounce at a time any more. The third layer for my foot patch, I do separately. Yes, I need a third layer because 1, I don’t build expendable boards, 2, foam isn’t strong enough to last, 3, I weigh 'bout 240 so I needs the strength under my back foot.
HTH
On LB’s I will sometimes do individual poly layers, depending on cloth weight or for coloring reasons. It does use a lot more resin and you get a much heavier board. There is also less air bubble problems though. With epoxy, I will do one layer and have the second cloth already cut and do it immediately (I do double laps, no insets on the layers). It’s more work this way, but all the cloth gets well saturated and very few bubbles.
Que pasa senor Shine!
I’ve been on it, but we must be on a different time schedule. I’ve been doing some trade shows in Vegas, so my attentions been on hookers & beer the past 3 weeks. I’d love to check out the projects, and I’m glad to see your thinking about the next round of boards.
I was semi kidding about the 3 layers of glass with epoxy. You might get away with it with standard 4 oz, but with the new tight weave cloths & no vac bag, you’d be asking for one big bubble of trouble.
One of the best way to get a good wet out with epoxy, and multiple layers of cloth is to butter coat in between the layers of cloth. ie, 1) roll out and cut all your top layers. 2) fold or roll back all the layers except for the bottom layer. roll all glass layers to the mid point of the board. Do this from the nose to mid, and tail to mid…you should have too rolls in the center of the board. 3) lay down a pour of epoxy on bottom layer. 4) roll next layer out on top of epoxy pour. 5) butter next layer 6) roll out last layer and pour epoxy as normal.
Doing this will help speed up wet out, help minimize frothing foaming epoxy, and chasing huge air bubbles. if you do this correctly, you really don’t even need spread the epoxy much on that last pour. It all just soaks up in the cloth, all you got to do is pull off the excess, and laminate down.
and I have less headaches doing one layer at a time, but it’s slower.
Nothing wrong with that unless youre trying to profit. Slow is fine.
But, if you wanted to do three layers, open weaves combined with low visc resin works good.
Also as RH said, you can also roll back your cloth, one side at a time, and really wet the surface first, then roll down your cloth back on top of the resin pool. That works good with most materials. I like using a 4" foam roller too.
Thanks Guys!
I never thought to roll back the top layer. I’m pleased with 6oz bottom and 6oz + 4oz top. I put patches on the tail and fin areas with no deck(front foot patch). All this is on top of a marko 1.9# blank. The board is holding up great.
So, I don’t know that I’d ever go for three layers. I have thought about coloring the bottom layers. Then doing logos and the top layers of glass.
The only reason I glassed these things myself in the first place is because Resinhead questioned my sexual orientation when I told him I might send them out.
Thanks again for all the support!
Josh
I never thought to roll back the top layer. I’m pleased with 6oz bottom and 6oz + 4oz top. I put patches on the tail and fin areas with no deck(front foot patch). All this is on top of a marko 1.9# blank. The board is holding up great.
Cool. My best board is a M 1.5 core and Im getting ready to try one their 1.9s.
Do you know how much your board weighs w/o fins? What are the board dims?
It’s true. I’m a sold to the fact that if you don’t make a board from start to finish, then it’s not your board. And if you going to do that, why not just go buy one in a shop.
Enjoy the fumes
Mmmmmmmm!!!
fumes gooooood!!!
Just got my fix of Polyurethane
Whaaaaatssssss uuuuuppppppp?
The board is 6’4x20x2.5 and it came in just under 7 pounds with a probox quad setup. It gets heavier with the fiberglass fins that I got from Robin @ probox. They are a very interesting template.
I think that the new FCS boxes would have been lighter, but I saved this board by tuning the fins. If it weren’t for the adjustablity of probox I would have scraped this board early on. It was an amazing change spreading the fins apart as far as they would go, the board turned on. It has been a joy to ride in all types of conditions.
I followed probox install advice and lined the hole with 4oz and wrapped the boxes in roving. No problems so far and I’ve put this one to the test.
The boxes were routed in to one layer of 6oz with a 4oz patch over the whole tail. I laminated them all in one pass(getting the thread back on topic :).
And, I agree with Resinhead on the doing it all yourself point. I’m making fins as we speak!
“It’s true. I’m a sold to the fact that if you don’t make a board from start to finish, then it’s not your board. And if you going to do that, why not just go buy one in a shop.”
I agree. Well, almost…I’ve glassed some cool boards for some friends…That’s where the little Stingray logos come in…
I do all mine in one hit, 2 top 1 bottom and carbon on the rails on stringless boards ,very clean laps with very little sanding of laps before hot coating ,
this board has 2 x 4 ozs on deck 1 x 4 on bottom plus a tail patch in 4 ozs with big laps and carbon on rails all done in one go .
??? How do you do the top & bottom at the same time??? Man that’s a time saving technique!! Do you vac bag the whole thing, then suspend it in a zero gravity room?
About a year ago Plusoneshaper did a thread on that using epoxy with some Brazilian glasser doing the deed. There were pics contained in a link. If I recall, he glassed one side then placed the board in a 100F oven for 10 minutes just enough to kick the resin so it doesnt flow, then flipped to do the other side. According to +1, there were some strength bennies to a more homogenous fg skin.
Dont know about the carbon rail tape deal…seems like quite a trick!
edit: http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=343732;search_string=epoxy;#343732
There’s a video out there in cyberspace of a sailboard glassing operation on Maui that does both sides of a sailboard including a carbon fiber and kevlar layer in one shot. I’ve seen it several times but I can’t find it now.
The only spooky thing is that he does the whole process while in a full hazmat bumblebee suit with a supplied airline like you see in those Andromeda Strain type of movies…
The poxy-heads here probably don’t people watching that…
That makes complete sense. I was under the impression that some one was making a cosmetically pure surfboard. Those are cool, but they get a white paint job when all said & done. I’m not saying that it’s not a tight lamination on anything, but a surftech type paint job can hide a lot of bubbles and pukas.