Limitations of modern shortboards (based on obs from pro tour)

I completely agree.

Even if it was the same 6’1" I think it would be interesting non the less.

There was that “Bic” one design contest where you could either pick this more pulled in 9’ or 10’ nose rider.

Granted its a Bic so…

However if you did do that with standard boards would some guys say “this one is heavier than that one” or similar types of complaints or possible flaws?

If you could get all the boads to weigh the same (basically) it would be fun to check out. Even if you had 1-3 different designs to pick from. Each obviously having there own advantage and disadvantage (whatever that might be, ect).

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I’d love to see a contest where all the pros ride the same exact board ~ maybe even some Swaylock’s inspired hybrid thing ~ not your typical 6’1" potato chip.

Fact is, a truly talented surfer can ride ANYTHING well. I wonder how many pros would get embarrased surfing a non standard wave slider.

Now that would be somethin!

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I completely agree.

Even if it was the same 6’1" I think it would be interesting non the less.

There was that “Bic” one design contest where you could either pick this more pulled in 9’ or 10’ nose rider.

Granted its a Bic so…

However if you did do that with standard boards would some guys say “this one is heavier than that one” or similar types of complaints or possible flaws?

If you could get all the boads to weigh the same (basically) it would be fun to check out. Even if you had 1-3 different designs to pick from. Each obviously having there own advantage and disadvantage (whatever that might be, ect).

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I’d love to see a contest where all the pros ride the same exact board ~ maybe even some Swaylock’s inspired hybrid thing ~ not your typical 6’1" potato chip.

Fact is, a truly talented surfer can ride ANYTHING well. I wonder how many pros would get embarrased surfing a non standard wave slider.

Now that would be somethin!

This is true to some degree. I think a good pro can ride anything as well as that type of equipment can be ridden. There is no doubt some of the stuff we used to ride was crap for performance. I saw Donovan and some of the other guys riding those old singles we all got off of for a reason and it was obvious he was struggling to make the board perform. There are singles that work well, but some of that old stuff is just that…old. I didn’t think Kelly was surfing all that great ( by Kelly standards ) on the Twin Fin at Malibu someone posted. I think he pushed way harder on his thrusters. I think the idea with some of the old designs that never got their just due, is to continue experimenting and improving on rather than going back to the way they were in another era.

Just perusing the latest Tracks at the servo and took particular note of an interview with Kelly Slater in relation to the boards he was riding during the Aussie leg.

The interviewer made a comment that he thought Slater was “gunna do a Cheyne Horan on us”, in relation to Slater riding alternative equipment.

Slater responded that Cheyne was in fact his source of inspiration and spoke about how he had got design inspiration from Cheynes “widepoint back between the feet short equipment”.

Interesting. Just another piece of the puzzle.

He definitely had a performance edge on his competitors based on those boards.

Steve

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Just perusing the latest Tracks at the servo and took particular note of an interview with Kelly Slater in relation to the boards he was riding during the Aussie leg.

The interviewer made a comment that he thought Slater was “gunna do a Cheyne Horan on us”, in relation to Slater riding alternative equipment.

Slater responded that Cheyne was in fact his source of inspiration and spoke about how he had got design inspiration from Cheynes “widepoint back between the feet short equipment”.

Interesting. Just another piece of the puzzle.

He definitely had a performance edge on his competitors based on those boards.

Steve

Glad to see Cheyne getting some credit from someone like Slater. That style of board works really well on many of the conditions found on the tour. A guy like Kelly can get the most out of it also. Any pictures of the board Slater was riding?

Yo Coque,

(still no Lokbox fins in the post mate)

To the uneducated eye those 44 boards ridden on a given day in an ASP event look very similar, but to the eye of an experienced shaper they will represent a vast array of design theory and foil variation.

Take 4 stock 6’1" thrusters off the rack, a Brewer, Merrick, Natural Curves, & Stretch. 95% of the surf world can’t tell you what’s going on with the shape of these boards, how they’ll work or why. But Dick, Al, Steve, & Bill could give a detailed explanation of all their nuances and how these differences in them will change how they’ll surf.

A top level surfer will cover twice the amount of water and change speed twice as much on a given wave as your average Joe. How do they do it? – with talent and equipment.

Stay Stoked, Rich

I wonder when a 6’1" rounded square thruster will be considered retro equipment, we have been riding them since 81, that is 27yrs, i was burnt out after 15yrs. The repetition over and over again.

Geoff Mccoy saved my surfing life.

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Yo Coque,

(still no Lokbox fins in the post mate)

To the uneducated eye those 44 boards ridden on a given day in an ASP event look very similar, but to the eye of an experienced shaper they will represent a vast array of design theory and foil variation.

Take 4 stock 6’1" thrusters off the rack, a Brewer, Merrick, Natural Curves, & Stretch. 95% of the surf world can’t tell you what’s going on in the shape of the boards, how they’ll work or why. But Dick, Al, Steve, & Bill could give a detailed explanation of all their nuances and the differences in them change how they’ll surf.

A top level surfer will cover twice the amount of water and change speed twice as much on a given wave as your average Joe. How do they do it? – with talent and equipment.

Stay Stoked, Rich

I have to disagree slightly on this one. I think equipment plays a role…but what subtle nuances could you possible put on a double concave 6’1’’ thruster thats 11.5 x 18 1/4 x 13.5?

Seriously…I know the pros say this…but with them I think it’s 98% talent. Curren winning a heat on old outdated twin fin off the rack of a local surf shop speaks loudly to me personally. I think more experimentation could change that…like changing the plan shape or adding more thickness etc…but I just don’t think there is the invisible nuance to an experienced intermediate surfer…average joe novice yes…obviously. It’s not rocket science. With pros their talent makes it hard to determine what the board is doing with some obvious exeptions of riding totally outdated equipment. An example was Donovan struggling on those old style single fins in that one movie clip.

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I wonder when a 6’1" rounded square thruster will be considered retro equipment, we have been riding them since 81, that is 27yrs, i was burnt out after 15yrs. The repetition over and over again.

Geoff Mccoy saved my surfing life.

The one you rode in '81 is likely “retro.” If you’ve got pictures, can you post them up? I think that would be a great thread, the evolution of the thruster. I don’t remember seeing any in '81 that look like today’s “stock” thrusters. Like you Tombstone, I quit riding the standard thruster in the mid '90’s. What everyone else was riding became too narrow, too rockered, and too thin for my liking.

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I wonder when a 6’1" rounded square thruster will be considered retro equipment, we have been riding them since 81, that is 27yrs, i was burnt out after 15yrs. The repetition over and over again.

Geoff Mccoy saved my surfing life.

The one you rode in '81 is likely “retro.” If you’ve got pictures, can you post them up? I think that would be a great thread, the evolution of the thruster. I don’t remember seeing any in '81 that look like today’s “stock” thrusters. Like you Tombstone, I quit riding the standard thruster in the mid '90’s. What everyone else was riding became too narrow, too rockered, and too thin for my liking.

I have recently been riding some of my thrusters…longboard…shortboard and a cheater. I love the boards, but having been on wide tailed singles the last five years…I now see some of the things about thrusters I never liked. They are sticky and they require constant rail to rail. Definitely not the only design for performance. More vogue that state of the art I think. Hard not to be in vogue when an entire industry is built around the design.

Surfboard design is evolving on many fronts. This evolution has been accelerated by the closing of Clark Foam. Stringer configuration, foam variety, fabric choice, Resin types, etc. and their sources grow in number daily. We see more and more attempts to expand performance horizons today than ever before. The new and the old are more astir than every before. Surfboard design is IMHO in a new renaissance. The new avenues of composite construction are being traveled and on some of these roads less traveled, to paraphrase Frost, will come innovations manifesting unseen wider horizons of performance.

High performance surfboard and fin configuration will always be driven by those are most open to experimentation and innovative both in the water and where the boards are made. When what happens in the lineup and the shaping room is collaborated effectively the next step in performance happens. Doug Haut has records has records that go back 4 decades that reflect this type of collaboration. He may not have boards that are ridden on the ASP tour but his shapes continue to evolve, as they must. If we look at the history of surfboard configuration and construction we can pick special moments where things came together perfectly, i.e. Brewer, Lopez.

I don’t see winners and losers on the ASP circuit, rather I see many inspired moments of collaboration. We are all singular judges of what is accomplished or what has failed, but in the end the surfboard that is able to accomplish the most radical moves, go the fastest and the slowest and move through an ever changing medium with most grace and flair is the one that is setting the pace. I will judge, so will you, but the ones in the booth will decide where the prizes will go and how they do it ain’t easy.

Who can know what is in the mind of the judges?

Off to the fin shop, Rich

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Surfboard design is evolving on many fronts. This evolution has been accelerated by the closing of Clark Foam. Stringer configuration, foam variety, fabric choice, Resin types, etc. and their sources grow in number daily. We see more and more attempts to expand performance horizons today than ever before. The new and the old are more astir than every before. Surfboard design is IMHO in a new renaissance. The new avenues of composite construction are being traveled and on some of these roads less traveled, to paraphrase Frost, will come innovations manifesting unseen wider horizons of performance.

High performance surfboard and fin configuration will always be driven by those are most open to experimentation and innovative both in the water and where the boards are made. When what happens in the lineup and the shaping room is collaborated effectively the next step in performance happens. Doug Haut has records has records that go back 4 decades that reflect this type of collaboration. He may not have boards that are ridden on the ASP tour but his shapes continue to evolve, as they must. If we look at the history of surfboard configuration and construction we can pick special moments where things came together perfectly, i.e. Brewer, Lopez.

I don’t see winners and losers on the ASP circuit, rather I see many inspired moments of collaboration. We are all singular judges of what is accomplished or what has failed, but in the end the surfboard that is able to accomplish the most radical moves, go the fastest and the slowest and move through an ever changing medium with most grace and flair is the one that is setting the pace. I will judge, so will you, but the ones in the booth will decide where the prizes will go and how they do it ain’t easy.

Who can know what is in the mind of the judges?

Off to the fin shop, Rich

Now I agree with most of this. I think the judges might be the general surfboard buying public rather than the ASP in the future. I don’t see pro surfing driving board buying nearly as much as it has. The fastest growing segment I see in surfing are those over 30 getting back into it.

“judges might be the general surfboard buying public”

What you address here is marketing and economics.

If the judges of surfboard performance are the buying public, the future of truly high performance surfboards, those ridden by the best surfers in the world, will grind to a halt and what sells rather that what is truly high performance will be the direction of performance evolution. We see four fin boards moving on to the scene more and more simply because they will trim faster than a board with a center fin, because they have no parachute, center fin, on them. They don’t decelerate like a thruster will. Stop is just as much a part of performance at the highest levels of surfing as go. That’s why the boys on the ASP tour surf thrusters. Stalling is a big part of high level surfing and one can stall a thruster like crazy.

The buying public simply cannot drive the future of surfboard performance. The don’t know enough and they can’t surf well enough. What the buying public drives is what will surf easily and catch waves easily and thus what will increase the speed of their learning curve, most don’t have a clue what that is. They’re driven by shine, color and their present whim.

I’m done here.

Good Surfin’, Rich

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“judges might be the general surfboard buying public”

What you address here is marketing and economics.

If the judges of surfboard performance is the buying public, the future of truly high performance surfboards, those ridden by the best surfers in the world, will grind to a halt and what sells rather that what is truly high performance will be the direction of the performance evolution. We see four fin boards moving on to the scene more and more simply because they will trim faster than a board with a center fin, but they have no parachute, center fin, on them. so they don’t decelerate like a thruster will. Stop is just as much a part of performance at the highest levels of surfing as go. That’s why the boys on the ASP tour surf thrusters. Stalling is a big part of high level surfing and one can stall a thruster like crazy.

The buying public simply cannot drive the future of surfboard performance. The don’t know enough and they can’t surf well enough. What the buying public drives is what will surf easily and catch waves easily and thus what will increase the speed of their learning curve, most don’t have a clue what that is. They driven by shine, color and their present whim.

I’m done here.

Good Surfin’, Rich

I’m not even talking about judges. I think judges as far as their judging’s influence on surfing are complete irrelevent to actually going surfing and enjoying it. I think competition has to some degree ruined the sport. I used to feel otherwise, but it seems very clear to me now. The massed don’t drive the sport…the creators that have gone out on limbs give birth and the hype masters take over and drive it literally into the ground until there is nothing left to milk from it.

I am told I should respect the owners of big clothing companies and ASP judges, the editors and writer of surfing publications, surfing pros and a host of others because they have been sucessful, surf well or have done this or that for surfing.

Your right…the surfing public does buy shine, color and their present whim and thats exactly what the above mentioned like have pushed and called the state of the art…but…rather than sell them what your correctly described as the right board…they instead pushed the pointed nose twig as if it would somehow magically change them into their favorite sponsored surf star. Why should I respect any of these people for that? On a personal level and just human beings I like many involved in that side, but I wouldn’t say making alot of money off surfing is helping surfing. It can be seen as a bit parasitic. Not all of the industry is bad. There are alot of interesting and great folks out there…I just don’t think they are involved in the larger side of things.

It was not until recently pros and the like began trying so called retro stuff and different boards. Not because their sponsors pushed them to or because they thought they were better, but because of an underground movement that happened all by itself because of a couple of surf movies that showcased guys like Tudor looking like they were just having fun and looking smooth doing it. Surfers looked at that and said…I can’t surf like Joel…but I can do what Joel is doing and have fun. Now the industry moguls have jumped on it full force with their plaid program, their argyle shorts program and thier 70’s looking tee shirts program and an entire new fad has been born. Screw the neo hippie movement in surfing too by the way. I’ll take punk prior to it’s corporization any day.

The good thing about this fad is the emphasis at least was on proper floatation and fun. Not how many airs or floaters you could do at your local contest or sponsorship. Thankfully…the American Amateur contest scene is in shambles…the bloodly rip off’s of kids money deserve it. Hopefully the trend will continue to the pro ranks until they find a system not so owned by the rag manufactures and mullet wrappers.

In this new culture…as in the past culture of hype…everyone is a guru…with the latest and greatest. My hat gets tipped to the guys who have continued to progress with board design, fin design and other aspects of the sport unheralded by the media and who could care less about being a guru or with the cool crowd. Those craftsmen who have stuck with their own ideas in spite of the tide going totally against them. There are many…so there is much to look forward to if you look close. I think you are also correct about a surfboard renissance, but it will take some weeding out also.

As for respecting the sucessful hypesters…I respect that we live in an enviroment that allows folks to follow their dreams and become sucessful. I don’t hold an ounce of respect for very much any of them have acomplished with regards to surfing. If anything…their acomplishment has been to create chaos where there was once order. A pecking order that is. Earned and not bought.

Like Dora said years ago: " Professionalism ( so called ) will be completely destructive to any control the individual has over the sport. The organizers will call the shots, collect the profits, while the waverider does all the labor and receives little. Also since surfing’s alliance with the decadent big business interest is designed only as a temporary damper to complete fiscal collapse, the completion of such a partnership will serve only to accelerate the art’s demise. A surfer should think carefully before selling his being to these “people” since he is signing his own death warrant as a personal entity. "

Regardless of the feelings on Dora…he hit it spot in back in 1969. Right before the first collapse. Many surfers consider those years when hundreds quit surfing to be the most memorable…but it barely lasted a decade before the hypesters did it again and as usual with full approval of the so called gurus wanting to wallow in some of the pixie dust.

Surfing itself for those who love the art of actually surfing…is still about paddling out and being …out there. Not about who thinks your what or the surfings ten most important men.

Surfing itself for those who love the art of actually surfing…is still about paddling out and being …out there.

This easily happens when you ignore the industry side altogether.

Ignorance is bliss.

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Surfing itself for those who love the art of actually surfing…is still about paddling out and being …out there.

This easily happens when you ignore the industry side altogether.

Ignorance is bliss.

True enough…but my home beach has one break since the Hurricanes and hordes of industry fed kuks with zero water knowledge paddle out with their new indestructable boards feeling bullet proof. It’s fun watching the shop owners give the kids stink eye for paddling out on a board not bought in their shop though.

Plus…it impossible to ignore completely when your involved in it. The industry has a fun side, it’s just not the most visible side. I will love surfing and ride equipment I enjoy regardless.