Limits

General Discussion
1

I want to start a discuss about the limiting factors of certain design aspects in surfboards in relation to wave size. In particular flex and the swallow or fish tail design. The purpose of the fish tail being to split the tail into two “half-pins” to allow a wider tail area and a wider board while being able to hold under higher speeds. While flex in big waves has been written-off as uncontrolable or too much to control. Of course all surfboards and all materials flex under load. The question I propose it whether flex can be built effectively on big-wave boards to control the potential energy of gravity and momentum in a way that can be used to generate more speed. By big waves I mean double-to-triple overhead as the lower limit to the limit of paddle in surfing(which is a grey area) as the upper limit.

My thinking is a shorter, thicker, more manueverable surfboard may be possible for riding larger waves, rather then the traditional guns, but of course it’s a complicated and difficult prospect. There are many factors to consider in building a board for such situations and testing concepts are difficult. A more bouyant core and a stronger shell could help reduce surface area, length, and weight. I know a heavier board is easier to get into a wave, which in another reason why I want to reduce the surface area. If there is less surface area to compete with wind, it should be easier to get a board in earlier.

I might be spending a month in Puerto Escondido this summer…I’m thinking about buiilding a few compsand style boards to test out. An idea I have is .75Lb EPS core with basalt glass/paulownia sandwich, rails either out of bamboo or paulwnia and possiblly wrapped with carbon or a kevlar/carbon hybrid. As far as dims go, thats where I’m fuzzy…

So let’s hear it…from your experiences what are the limits??

and yea I know I’m crazy…I spend alot of time on the bottom of pools, I might be slightly retarded by now…

I’m at work now, I’ll design a board later and post the file…

2

Well - you gotta catch the wave first and formost, after that you can think about what you want to do. Seems to me the problem is the wide varity of conditions one encounters on “big” days. Chop the size of small waves on the drop. Currents ripping like a river. My understanding is - except for “big” mush - speed isn’t usually the issue, but control. And, on many levels, when it’s clean, minimal current/chop etc. once you’ve made the drop, you probably want a lot less board to “drive.”

There have been interesting threads in the past regarding wave cathing vis-a-vis some of the points you’ve raised, such as: Narrow tail for “less surface area” may = less drag, easier to “drop in.” V. Wider tail = easier/earlier wave catching.

Good luck - let us kow how the experiements go - Taylor

3

An interesting proposition… Glad you stay at the bottom of a pool because you may become familiar with

some Oaxacan sea floor in the process of figuring this out.

First, you should check out the "Edge boards’’ ridden by Bunker Spreckels and Vinnie Bryan (and others)

on the North Shore back early 70s. If short and thick is your plan, these certainly broke the ground for you.

Getting a really short, thick structure to flex measurably is going to be a challenge, however.

A friend of mine who lived there about the same time told me of another guy, I’ll have to check with him to get the name,

who arrived on the North Shore with some sort of fish-like contraption and announced that he was paddling out at Sunset

on it. My friend said he told him, ''You’re going to die". But whoever it was proceeded to not only survive, but actually draw

some ‘‘neat lines’’, as my friend put it.

Mike

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I seem to recall a photo (Surfer’s Journal?) of a big fish that was ridden at Mavericks… 8 foot board perhaps. I think maybe it was Grant Washburn and he said it worked well. Anyone else remember?

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Hey Keith - O.T., but, thanks again for the carbon tow… 'nother sweet leash loop!

I remember the article about paddle guns, and the 8’ fish was a side bar - ridden by Doc Rennicker, Don’t know who made it.

Taylor

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…yesterday a customer told me that the days he surfed in Puerto Escondido with a 7´4´´ , a 7´6´´ and 8´2´´ he would have liked to have a 9 or so

big P E is a bomb type wave without projection, with an almost over the falls drop and “prepare to die ride”

and not like Sunset, that has projection and you have a bit more time to take off and hollow “inside”

so, if you going to P E and ride big with a fish and complete all the toobs

please take lot of pict and come back here to teach ourselves

7

reverb has a point, and I can speak from personal experience here, having had my ass handed to me at both Puerto Escondido

AND Sunset. Maybe that’s the first question for TurboJets, have you surfed Escondido previously? There’s a whole lotta water movin’

around there, and the critical nature of the takeoff cannot be over-emphasized.

That said, those guys did ride the Edge boards at Pipe and such. Don’t let us hinder your efforts. Just take a big board for insurance.

8

The big wave fish in TSJ was shaped by Parmenter.

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In that same article they talk about another shaper in NorCal making shorter boards for Grant Washburn for Mavericks. It helps that he is huge and has incredible paddle speed.

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Jeff Clark started surfing Mavericks on a 7’2" twin fin according to legend.

Grant caught a wave on a (Jeff Ho?)little short board just for fun.

The wave has to let you in on a smaller board.Your wave count will go way down, you will back out of

some that were makable.

On the big days catching 5-10 waves is a great day.One to four waves is more common.

If you want to go with a smaller board in big waves keep it fat, heavy, and try to keep the rail line

straiter in the middle of the board.More fins help with a wider tail.

I made a 8’6" 24lb longboard with 12"tail that worked in big waves.

And I have a 8’4" 17lb gun that’s 4" thick.

Good luck,

11
Quote:
In that same article they talk about another shaper in NorCal making shorter boards for Grant Washburn for Mavericks. It helps that he is huge and has incredible paddle speed.

Shawn Rhodes

12

Grant has been my neighbor since the early 90’s he rides surf boards made

by Randy Cone and works with him too.Grant does a little glassing and the colored

epoxy on foam art on some of Cone’s surfboards.Good way to use up the leftover

epoxy gold in the bucket.

He is a very nice guy and can surf too.

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I read somewhere, sometime at some place (actually make that fairly big Pipe if I recall) that Michael Ho was riding a 5’8". Was about 8 to 10 feet if memory serves me correctly. There’s less rail to shift on a shorter board as well.

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sorry… I meant to say Randy Cone. Lots of Mavs guys ride Randy’s boards.

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I think small boards can do wonders in larger waves, but paddling into the wave will be the weak part. I think heavier would also be better. And you better have a strong glass job, or you’ll have a lot of pressure dents on the deck.

I’ve ridden my 6’ 5-fin fish and a 6’ 2" rocketfish in double overhead plus waves. The hard part is catching the wave early enough. Every drop is usally under the lip and in the air. A lot of times I’m standing up in the lip and falling into the pit. If you don’t fall apart when you hit the bottom, you’ll have whole lot of speed. The second, third and subsequent turns become challenging if your board is too wide. In double ups it easier cause you can catch the foam ball before it jacks up again.

Never been to PE, so I can’t say how hard it will be.

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Puerto Escondido

for that place when it’s big from what seen in the movies at least

all you’d want is a rounded pin or straight pin

it’s more like pipe so unless it’s small you won’t be hot dogging too much unless you’re a pro.

pretty much a make the drop and pull in kind of wave

at least that’s what I’ve seen

not many folks would ride a big ass fish in second reef pipe

most of the shorties are like 18-18.75 at the widest

like curren said in “Searching for TC” regarding his TP Fireball, those wide tails tend to want to get sucked back up into the foamball…

Needless to say though I think super short is the future for performance…

Something you can paddle in but surf like a tow board in tow board sized waves…