I was there too (surfed in the contest years back, but just as a spectator this time). Wave conditions were pretty bad for the contest. Be that as it may, they raised a lot of money for a really good cause (cancer research). Just one of the many boards auctioned off for $4300.
Skip was riding a board he made for his daughter (according to Donna). Interestingly, it had FCS side plugs but they were glassed over, he rode it as a single fin. He surfed great on it. But then he is as classic as classic gets, in my opinion.
“REAL LOCALS PICK UP TRASH”
PS Rusty came over to talk to a kid sitting with me who was in a wheelchair. They had a long discussion and Rusty told him that he wished most of his team riders had such a good attitude about life…
Mmanzi, if Dick “personally” trained this guy, then lets just pull the plug altogether. Triple stringers sticking out at least a 1/4", tailblocks installed on the raw blank and then attempted to shape, not the work of a trained apprentice! The masters for the models I speak of, don’t have a finished bottom and need to have the rails hand shaped into them. Now mind you, I’m doing only boards over 7 foot in length and haven’t had the time to examine the shapes, designs, or finish work on the shorties, so I have nothing to say about those. But, I have “ghosted” balsa boards for Dick, from building the blank to finish shape
OK, lets’ take this one issue at a time. First, as far as anyone “pulling the plug”, I think that’s Dick’s or Ron Bloomquist’s call, unless you are doing so from your end. If so, you should probably let one of then know. Second, since by your own admission the consumer is getting a good finished product in one of two ways (either from another finish shaper for the short boards or possibly from your hands on the longer ones), I don’t think the end users are really concerned with how much finish shaping has to be done to a machined blank. I have to say I have never personally gotten back a board as a return due to shaping (or overshaping) issues, and I’ve been with the label for over five years. Lastly, while you may have shaped balsas for Dick in the past, he personally does them all by hand right now. It would not be efficient to ship the Bones blank from Hawaii to CA and then back to Hawaii for JR to glass. As I said before, my concern is primarily what is being done now, not what was done in the past.
As an aside, and I’ll try to state this as diplomatically as possible, it seems self defeating to attempt to justify the need for one’s work while simultaneously slagging the product which would be the ultimate source of that same work. But maybe I’m missing your ultimate intent here (whatever that may be).
Nah, where this is leading is, I always get called in after the fact, once the ball starts unravelling. As far as pulling the plug, my comment was for the use of a shaper that couldn’t get stringers down even, didn’t have a clue as to how a tail block was to be installed and finished.
The boards I finish for Plumeria out of Oceanside, Ca. are the most accurate and cleanly finshed boards they wind up with. Every shape should be given the same concideration, whether it is for Gobber or Shreaddy. Now, Bone’s blanks, I re-built one of Dicks Boards for Gary Mountford (VP FCS), bones had chambered it until there was only 1/8" skin left on the bottom, it spit apart in the hold of the aircraft. I had to route out the bottom skin, re-plank the finished board, re-glass and refinish. It was a challenge, but hell, that’s what I live for
You comment about a small percentage of boards which you work on that admittedly go out of the shop in perfect condition, which theoretically is the intended job that you accept (and get paid for). I don’t really understand the logic of this except that perhaps you need to vent your frustrations on how difficult some of the work is.
Putting that aside, my real problem is that you post what could only be regarded as disparaging comments about the Brewer/Plumeria label while simultaneously tooting your own horn. And while it’s not jour job to make Brewer/Plumeria look good, as a Rep. (and I freely admit that that is my agenda) I can only say “Thanks a cartload, buddy!”.
Mr.Mmanzi, my agenda is to do only the absolute best on ANYONES boards, but when I get called in to re-do/repair on what another so called shaper has forked up and gotten PAID for, this pisses me off!
When I moved to Pearl City in 1961, Surfboards Hawaii had just opened up in Haleiwa and mt local boy neighbor said you couldn’t get a better board than a Surfboards Hawaii by Dick Brewer.
I met Dick for the first time at the 1963 Makaha Championships and followed his ideas for advanced surfboard designs. I’m not down on Dick, Plumeria or anything political, just substandard work from shapers/employees attempting to pass themselves off as craftspersons.
While at Jack Reeves, I’ve noticed that he now is chambering Dicks wood boards to avoid the over routing problem
“I’m not down on Dick, Plumeria or anything political, just substandard work from shapers/employees attempting to pass themselves off as craftspersons.”
I couldn’t agree more with Jim.
The essential problem with “ghosts” and “machines” stems from the demand for product surpassing production capabilities. When the demand is there the “label” needs to generate a profit.
If the “label” cannot fill demand with craftsmen such as Jim, the “label” will unfortunately maintain production with less than capable labor.
My response to Jim is that if he does not like the work he is taking on from us, then he shouldn’t accept it, and then he won’t have any more problems. By the way, he still is not admitting that he gets paid to do the very work he is complaining about. Whether we paid someone else before he gets the job should not be his concern. It’s as easy as that, and it’s his choice in the end.
It appears as if you think that only the original shaper should shape all the boards under their label. I guess that means that Rusty, CI, Lost, etc. will be ramping down soon to selling 20 boards a week. Hold your breath waiting for that to happen. And I bet if you were in their shoes you’d turn that money down too, eh?
Once again the bottom line is that the end users are happy with the boards they are buying, or they would either not buy them or return them. I’m not seeing either one.
So speculate all you want about the “moral state of the surfboard business”. It’s a free country and it’s also good fun. But in the end it’s a business, and the intent is to make money while giving the consumer a quality product. It’s what they call “the American Way”. I’m willing to live with it, how about you?
I think that ghost shapers should put their names on the boards that they shaped. I have no problem owning an Owl Chapman-signed Brewer, a Rick Holt-signed Brewer, a Rich Pavel-signed Brewer, or a Dick Brewer-signed Brewer. And I would be happy to own a Jim Phillips-signed Brewer, if I ever stumbled across one.
I have a problem with (and would not knowingly purchase)boards signed by someone who didn’t touch them, other than with a pencil.
If it’s a machine shape, then it should say “designed by [insert famous name here]”.
It’s called truth in labeling. AKA honesty is the best policy.
I’m not surprised that a real craftsman would be annoyed by shoddy work done by other hands, even if the craftsman is being paid to fix those problems. A perfectionist is tough on everyone, especially himself. And though you complain that Jim “still is not admitting that he gets paid to do the very work he is complaining about,” he is, of course, paid to FIX the very work he is complaining about. Whether he continues to do that is up to him and to Mr. Brewer.
But if I was buying a board, I’d be happy that someone as detail-obsessed as Jim spent some time with it, whether that was tuning the rails after the board left the cutting machine or shaving down stringers that poked up a quarter-inch or shaped and attached a tail block the way RB (and the buyer) would want it.
Did I read any of Jim’s posts as an attack on Plumeria or Dick Brewer? Not in the least. What I see is a guy who feels compelled to produce the best board possible (whether it carries his name or not) and can’t help but get angry when he sees someone’s “finished” shape with obvious and significant problems – even if only someone who’s been building boards for 40 years would notice them.
You have to Know Jim Phillips to understand where he is coming from.I was his first grom starting in 1964 and I am still a Grom compared to him.He is not attacking people… it’s the work…it’s all in the work.Jim lives through his hands and is a perfectionist in every way.If he had pursued custom furniture and woodworking I gaurantee you he would be a wealthy man.When Jim see’s bad work it is beyond his comprehension that someone would actually accept a check for it.I now restore antique furniture and nothing pisses me off more than having to fix a mistake some fool made and got paid for.Sure I get paid for it and I get paid well but it still pisses me off.I simply can’t suffer fools that get paid well for poor work.I am not talking about honest mistakes due to lack of knowledge.I am ranting about folks that do bad work…know better…but don’t care.The cool thing about Jim though is if anyone in the world politely asked for help he would bend over backwards to set you right.As for Ghost SHaping its just part of the whole deal.I used to do it with no complaints,I was proud that my work was considered worthy.But in the end its either the real deal or it aint.If someone like Dick Brewer shaped the board its real.If he didn’t it’s not.How complicated is that??
I think that ghost shapers should put their names on the boards that they shaped. I have no problem owning an Owl Chapman-signed Brewer, a Rick Holt-signed Brewer, a Rich Pavel-signed Brewer, or a Dick Brewer-signed Brewer. And I would be happy to own a Jim Phillips-signed Brewer, if I ever stumbled across one.
I have a problem with (and would not knowingly purchase)boards signed by someone who didn’t touch them, other than with a pencil.
If it’s a machine shape, then it should say “designed by [insert famous name here]”.
It’s called truth in labeling. AKA honesty is the best policy.
I’m not embarassed to be concerned about the moral state of the surfboard business.
Craftsmen simply hold themselves to a different standard than the bottom line.
It’s OK, Mr. Manzi, that you believe the standard is the end users perception of quality.
Some of us just disagree. I believe the quality of a custom surfboard inevitably leads to real customer satifaction. Quality performance and construction that fits every customers needs.
There is a vast and currently expanding market for surfboards. It’s great that major labels meet that market’s demand by expanding their production with ghost shapers and CNC machines.
Their position in the market bears some responsibility, including maintaining the quality of their product. That’s not too much to expect.
The custom polyester surfboard, whether hand shaped by the name on the label, a ghost shaper, or a CNC machine is facing a stiff challenge from surfboards of alternative materials and construction.
I hope, for their sake, the major labels won’t be ramping down to 20 a week, as a result of the market shifting to alterantive boards due to the lack of quality in custom polys.
Craftsmen are one of the industry’s greatest asset.
Keith, you said it all… As far as I’m concerned, at least. The craftsmen should have their work recognized.
Besides, it’s even harder to shape according to someone else’s features rather than to design and shape your own. Thus the added value to the work, in my opinion…