You doctor Gloss resin so that it flows out better and sands and polishes better. Thicker, heaverier resin in less then optimal room temps, fans blowing etc. will puddle, slab and separate. While it is true that you can thin too much and it will run all over the place, (especially rails) there is a happy medium. You want the resin to spread easily and flow out. That’s the goal. Thicker resin is heavier and sags rather than flows. It will puddle in channels and concaves. You can stand there babysitting it with a brush but as it sets you won’t be able to brush those puddles away. If you put down a good Gloss and lay it off, the final brush marks will flow out and disappear. PS. Keep in mind that if you let a gallon of Gloss sit around a few months; It will thicken and a lot quicker than Lam resin.
Well you live and learn!
I used Fiberglass Hawaii UV cure lam resin for everything from lam to finish coat. The FC got extra sufacing agent (home made with wax and styrene). I thinned the FC also with styrene. Only used acetone for cleaning brushes. Since it’s almost always good and hot here (80s) if I wanted quick cure I dragged the stand and board out onto the driveway apron and BANG five minutes later it’s ready for the next job.
Yeah, I’d say you need to heat your work space. Maybe section off a smaller volume (glassing only room) just big enough and heat only that.
Ahh the wide panoply of life.
Panaply? Honestly, I think if I had kept experimenting with Reichold Gloss and UV Powder, I might have got it worked out. But UV was new to us in 1992 on the fog banked Central Coast of Calif. it even took a few tries with UV hot coats to figure that out. I mostly took my cues from a well known shaper/glasser who was glassing Greg Noll’s replica “Duke” “Hot Curl” boards in a space up at the “Chicken Ranch”. He dropped trying to use UV in Reichold because it wasn’t working out. I did the same and as I said 1992/93. Continued and still do using UV in Lamination and Hot coats when ever it works out. It makes sense in cooler climates where the air is cold, but sunshine. And of course if you have a “Box”. I have a heated shop, so for me there is no problema. If I were back on Maui or anywhere in the Islands, I would never use it for anything except ding repair. Why would I? With perfect weather and a conducive air temp, why would you use UV? A lam, hot coat or gloss sets within a few minutes of your last Squeege or brush stroke. The only advantage I can see is if a guy wasn’t that good with a brush or squeege and needed extra time to get everything laid off. So yes in that case unlimited time for a Worker who takes more time, I can see that advantage.
70F is the lowest temp for spray paint, poly resins, epoxy in my opinion. It’s not so much the temp of the resin / paint / etc. but the surfaces it’s applied to.
Gloss needs to be applied thin and with extra catalyst. I still use the mix of styrene + surfacing agent and technique Kokua posted many years ago and never had a problem. Speed is important here: Pour the whole batch of gloss down stringer and spread roughly even. With medium pressure cross brush (rail to rail) one stroke, then lengthwise end to end one stroke (middle out). Do lengthwise again from opposite end but this time rail to rail light pressure. Never lift the brush on each stroke and pull resin from brush into bucket each stroke. Use a wide Purdy brush dedicated for gloss only. After brushing like this with thin gloss, most will be on the floor or in the bucket so no pooling will happen. When the drips on the tape are just gelled, pull it. Close the door and leave it alone until the next day. After cleaning that expensive brush, rig up some way to hang it in a container with dish soap + water. Next time you use it comb it out, rinse thorougly, dry, then blow off. I give the brush a dip in acetone and wipe just before using. If you get this right, you can start sanding at 320 (except for tape lines).
Follow Pete’s instructions close, don’t deviate and even a beginner can pull off a decent gloss. The brush cleaning and storing instructions should be used by anyone who does Gloss. I could take it a step further and discuss brushes, but won’t. Purdy is still the “coin of the realm”.
I am fast reading this thread and there are plenty of complicated things and stuff that possible I forget but I try to response.
I do this in daily basis and in a cold and humid weather 80% of the year.
Plenty of points:
-Remember that there is no any gloss resin in most parts of the World so you need to do the coats with lamination resin.
The problem/no problem is that the gloss resin is “harder” so better and easier to polish (to sand with finer grits) but is more brittle hence all those stress marks in the longboards etc. That almost never occurs with lamination resin (the no problem side)
-You DO NOT NEED to add styrene to the lamination resins; remember: you are adding WAX IN STYRENE you do not need more styrene outside that because you wil finish with a not so good wax/resin ratio hence a tacky surface. May be Kokua was good with his technique and with a Hawaii hot weather but in general that do not work.
-Temperature. Epoxy is the one with the problem and inhibition at low temperature.
What is low temperature for polyesters: you can work ok at 14C minimum in Winter times for laminations and filler coats but no so good for gloss coats. You need UV cat to work it out good. Yes Reichhold resin is what I use in all the steps.
Epoxy is just almost inhibited at 14C.
Should be no wind or air flowing in the lamination bay.
-With lam resin as a gloss resin, you need to start with 320; if the application is not so good; you need to start very slightly with 280.
If you are using gloss resin you can start with 400.
-You do the tape line with the SAME GRIT that you start. ALWAYS that way then finish the rails by hand. If you sand the rails mostly with the machine use a super soft pad or a homemade ultra softer pad and touch it only with 500 grit an up. Yes; if you need to touch it (besides the tape lines) with a 320 or 280 be very careful and very possible you will burn out some edge.
-Regarding the burn outs. If you have a problematic area; very possible that you will finish burning out that (near the fins, swallow tail edge, rail tape line)
The tip is that you almost no touch the rails with the pad and you do not sand any hard edges. Those edges are only with 600/1200 and buffed out. Is always that way, included other Industries like car body paint etc.
-You do not need to pour gobs of filler coat if not the sanding will be very difficult I mean; you will not finish with a flat surface if you put the board with side lights.
-Yes; use an expensive brush for the gloss coat but if you use a gloss resin you can deal it with a normal brush due to the leveler that the resin have.
-Never thin out with acetone!! The thinner is the styrene man but you do not need to thin out anything. That is an error or you have an old resin container. I never buy the big 220kg drum because of that or in the Winter, too cold the resin.
Styrene in itself does not have wax in it. So while adding Styrene to any Poly Resin may thin it; It does not increase the wax content. I’m suprised that you don’t know this. Unless you buy pre-package “Sanding Resin” you will definitely need to add Styrene Wax Solution to you laminating resin for a Hot Coat. Otherwise it will remain tacky and unsandable. “Gloss” resin is readily available from any supply house here in the U. S… like I said; The experts here on Sways would cringe at what I do to Reichold Gloss when I ready it for a gloss coat.
Well I’m done. That’s way more info than you need. Just get that room warmed up.
McDing; I did not say that if you read it again; I say clearly that you do not need MORE styrene cause the wax you are adding JUST HAVE it if so you are getting a not so good styrene/wax ratio regarding the amount of resin.
Clearly as that.
Didn’t know lamination resin had wax in it. It’s only as clear as you say it is… if you use lamination resin as you call it for an alternative to GLOSS resin and don’t put wax in it you will have a sanding mess. I think you’re probably lost somewhere in the translation. You’re entitied to your opinion. You do it your way down there and I’ll do it my way up here.
…what is the part difficult to understand in what I wrote before “You DO NOT NEED to add styrene to the lamination resins; remember: you are adding WAX IN STYRENE you do not need more styrene outside that”
The key is “you are adding” so (new) lamination resin + (add) styrene with wax = Hot coat resin (a sandable resin not so hard but no so brittle like gloss resin; also do not have the leveler agent)
If you want a “gel coat” you add a “charge” called silica (aerosil) + pigment.
Must be the spanglish
Styrene doesn’t have wax in it either! Surfacing agent has Parafin Wax and Styrene.
Do you stir your resin clockwise or counterclockwise. That could be the difference.
…McDing; I know you are a funny guy; of course not so funny like Resinhead so if this is one of your treats; ok
The other possiblity is that you forgot to take your medication.
Is clearly mentioned “you add wax to the styrene” not that the styrene just have it and if have it is just a ready product that all we know how is called.
“All we know how is called”. Got it.
