Making a good paddling 7'4" surf more like a 6'4" ???

General Discussion
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Is it possible?

It always seems to me of most boards you see in the surf shops; that when shapers go longer they are guns, hybrid, big-guy, or funboards. I don’t want a “big-boy shortboard”, “hybrid”, or “funboard” as most would think of one. What I want is a longer, good paddling, high-performance board that can perform more like a 6’ 4" performance shortboard.

Yeah yeah, razz me if you like but I’m getting older and with family and work don’t get out in the water as much as I used to (often dependent on wave quality). And with age, less paddling time, and larger crowds these days, I feel I need more wave catching ability. But once I’m up and riding I don’t want to be limited like I think I would be of many of the longer boards I’ve looked at, or have been limited by on the few that I’ve ridden. I’ll accept that I’d likely have to change my style (a bit longer turns and such, I’m cool with that) from the 6’4” T.Patterson that I mostly “want” to ride. But a 6’4” is probably not the best overall board from me at this stage of my life.

Waves; I think this is an important factor. Let’s just say average good days at typical So. Cal. shortboard type waves. However, I live about 3 minutes from Salt Creek and surf Trestles and beach breaks in San Clemente mostly.

So I would like to ask of others here for insight for a 7’4” with high-performance shortboard ability in mind. I’m thinking a squash-tail thruster that is roughly 20” wide, and about 2 5/8” thick. But I do not want a cork either. Thickness and other factors might also dependent on the fact that I intend to make a board using EPS core and composite 1/8” pvc skinned vacuum bagged construction. I weigh 170lbs without my wetsuit on. Also I’m not objectionable to a slightly domed deck so that the rails can be thinner and more sinkable while surfing and still maintain more paddling floatation down the center of the board. I’d prefer this time to go with a flat bottom throughout. Next one I’d probably go with concave. Also with this board I intend to do some sort of variation on the Bert and Greg inspired perimeter / parabolic stringer / rails.

I understand there are a lot of other factors to think of as well. But of all the elements of this shape; first off rocker and foil is one of my biggest concerns at this point since I want to cut the rocker/foil out to near exact finished dimensions (minus the pvc/glass) with a hotwire from a large solid block of EPS. It’s not like buying a Clark blank that aready has a basic rocker. Also if anyone fairly close by has some good rocker templates for a board like this that would not mind letting me copy one or two and maybe helping me out with the foil as well that would be great! I’ve not made a board myself in over 12yrs, so I’ve got no templates at all.

Thanks,

Glenn

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Twin fin, trailing edges moved up to around 14", and fin sizing starting around 6" tall x 4.75 minimum.

Roundsquash the tail, lotsa curve in the outline good.

Lotsa tail rocker, you don’t need trim speed, you want pump responce.

Thin the nose, narrow it if you can, with lightweight glassing.

I’d go thinner, but flatten the deck for increased responce to foot movement banking.

Move wide point back about 3" behind center, make sure nose is narrower by at least 2’ than tail.

Sorry you are stuck riding small, weak waves.

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Quote:

I’m thinking a squash-tail thruster that is roughly 20” wide, and about 2 5/8” thick.

Hi Glenn, What do you consider to be a big guy tri? I’ve read your post and keep thinking that a big guy tri of some sort fits with what your asking the board to do… Kind Regards, Matt.

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I assumed Glen wanted a thinner, more feel board, with possibly more width in the nose and tail, closer to a performance funboard rather than a softened big guy tri.

I’m 55, surf about once a month, so what would I know anyways? I mostly just ride a Bic 7’3" for normal surfing and a 7’9"er for small waves.

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Check out Grant Miller’s waterskate.

http://www.seajuice.com/waterskate.html

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hi Glenn!

this might be off the wall, but would you consider a single fin of the dimensions you mentioned, with a fin box , and the fin moved fairly far up in the box ? [maybe using a raky, flexy fin instead of the winged keel pictured, though]

I have a fair amount of fun with my 7’ x 20" x 2 7/8" pintail single fin, with this kind of setup. Loosens it up a bit for me, at least…

…the nose is 14", tail is 13".

I could probably go narrower tailed, and I’d like a 2 1/2 - 2 5/8" [maximum] version of this , with a little more nose and tail rocker…it’s pretty flat. It was a copy of an original 1975 Cordingley.

Anyway, just thought I’d run that past you…

I’m 43 , 5’10 , and 145 lbs, so I could definately go shorter and thinner, and probably narrower too on this board, but I do have a 6’4 single for that, as well !

E.P.S. and epoxy sounds REALLY good… please let me know how this goes, as I really want to epoxy the 6’10 stringerless blank, when I EVENTUALLY get around to shaping it, after the mal for this summer coming up [in a few weeks], that is !!

[ I hope this suggestion is worth considering, anyway, Glenn…if not, please just ignore it!]

okay… catchya !

  ben


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Thanks everyone. This is gunna be quick cause I gotta go to work. What Matt said is probably true. I just love riding a smaller boards that looking at a Big Guy board turns me off. I don’t have any real riding time on one. Maybe I could trim some of the fat off in the rails and elsewhere. I don’t want a wider nose, just a typical thruster nose, and not a tail too wide so you can’t snap and cutback at speed. I’d love to put the last half or more of my Patterson 6’4” into a 7’4” though.

So with this in mind, rocker really concerns me. If I were to make a trimmed down big-guy thruster; what blank would you base if off of? And if you did base the rocker off a certain blank how would you adjust the rocker if at all?

And yes Chip thanks maybe a few boards down the road I would consider a single fin J

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Glen,

I’ve been on the same quest for a few years now. It took about 8 boards to fine tune the size and dims. At 6’2" and 200 lbs I’ve found my “big” short board to work at 7’7" x 20 1/2 x 2/5/8–n@ 12 ,T @ 12. Completely thin out the nose and tail, concave to double with slight vee out the tail, hard rails 3/4 of the board. I added as much rocker as the 711R would allow, especially in the last 5 inches of the tail. But I’ve never measured rocker? I can’t get the same measurement twice. I’d guess 5 3/5 nose and 3 tail???

The board is very loose, catches waves well. It’s thin enough to be twitchy, but holds well with the vee and GR FCS fins, fins are set up more straight to increase drive. All the turning comes from the increased rocker (I perfer to bury the board in turns, then to pump & squirt kind of a Bertleman thing from my childhood) It’s kind of a oxymoron, err Jumbo Shrimp etc…Big Board with Short Board performance. You still have that swing weight of all that foam out in front of the board, and your rocker curve is only going to let the board do so much curving on a round house cut back. No matter how you slice it, a 7’3" isn’t going to perform like a 6’8" no matter what you do to it. But all 7’3" are not created equal.

One of the reasons I got back into shaping was because i couldn’t find hi performance mid size boards. All you could find was Hybrids, Mini Tankers, etc or Guns & Fun Guns and they were shaped for either slow Summer surf, or Jacked 3x overhead dredging, draining monsters.

Welcome to the twilight zone.

-Jay

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There are merits to the rotating fin for this application. It makes a board paddle and plane like a board six inches longer. It loosens the tail up considerably (but tunably - you can change the bumpers and have a stiff board if you like).

The loss is that you will not have rail fins, and some thruster moves are not the same with only one fin. I doubt it would, even if used, win tour events against thrusters. But it comes off the bottom fine…and provides better wave catching ability than any other system, and turns quite well.

Here’s a short vid of me riding my board last Friday that shows how drive may be generated by pushing through successive bottom turns on a cooperative wave.

http://www.blakestah.com/fins/demo3.mov

The system has been re-designed since I put up the web page - the finbox is now half as big and uses a newly designed fin template produced by Rainbow Fins. More questions, email or post…

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I took a 6’10" Stub Vector (Dave Parmenter) and stretched it out to 7’4" squash thruster. The specs are 13" nose, 20.5" wide pt., 13.75" tail, 2 5/8" thick. Low boxy rails are the key. Thin nose and tail. I had it glassed double 40z top single 4oz bottom . Keep it light weight !! rocker? 5.6" and 2.45"

Great board that really rides well head hight to three or four feet over head.

Quote:

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Nice video, Blakestah! You’ve got really smooth style…you’d look great on a longboard! :slight_smile:

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this may have allready been suggested, but why not try making a 6’10" paddle like a 7’4" and surf like a 6’4"? it seems that to make a board surf like its a foot shorter is alot harder then making a board paddle like its 6"longer and surf like its 6" shorter. add some width, thickness, flatten the deck, and lower the rocker. throw some cool concaves in it and three fins, maybe 2 or 4 if you wanna get really radical, and go surf. thats the route id go.

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“but why not try making a 6’10” paddle like a 7’4" and surf like a 6’4"?"

Gatordave’s got it right IMO. Take a Channel Islands Flyer to 6’10 (or less) and make it out of lightweight styrene/epoxy.

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Interesting approach. It seems most guys who still want to shortboard, but want more paddling ability, go wider, not longer. Do you not like wide boards? I had a Channel Islands twin fin at 6’2" (I’m only 150lbs.) that floated and paddled and got into waves nearly as well as my performance longboard. The twin is still super loose - it won’t surf as vertical maybe as a typical thruster, but it’s so much fun. I’m going to get another twin in the spring.

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have you tried a quad? i love them, theyre better then thruster and twins.

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don’t forget about stingers. A 7-4 with wings up about 18" is about as snappy as you’ll get a

7-4. Don’t go overly thick either. Thickness is over rated in terms of padling and wave catching. Other factors are so much more important. Rocker and foil are the keys.

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Wide point back as far as you dare, same with apex, cluster fins and finally - light light light…epoxy?

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Quote:

Rocker and foil are the keys.

And this is what I am talking about. I appreciate all the input about other designs and such, I really do, and it has gotten me thinking. But can anyone give me real knowledgeable input about rocker and foil for a 7’4” squashtail, modern performance thruster for riding chest to a few feet overhead So.Cal. type waves? What blanks might you choose and would you adjust the rocker or foil on them?

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No one knows if you can even apply all the theories you have gotten.

My 7’5" Wise that I rode while at CalWestern, spring '70, was 11" nosed, WP back4" at 18.5, 13" tail, standard rocker off the venerable 7’11" blank, thinned from the deck, moved as far back as possible for flatter nose and straighter tail.

But you might like more rocker, or less, depending on your skill, size, preferences.

NO one can tell you exactly what you want, as you are changing is surfing skill all the time, and YOU ARE THE SHAPER!

We can only give you basic guidelines that work for us, as NO one, but YOU, has your surfing experience.

Everything works in surfing!