Many designs are criticized here.

…and very rarely is the creator here to participate in the discussion.

Hulls, nuggets, fat penguins, keels, quads and bonzers.

New policy or just kowtowing to UBB terrorism?

Sad…especially for a grown man to throw such a temper tantrum in light

of a fairly benign thread.

true afoaf but those designers have the opportunity to respond if they like.

Roy cannot respond. he is not allowed to. if this were the only forum to

discuss the 13’er, i might feel like you about it but, there are better venues

for this discussion. venues where the designer is free to participate whether

he wants to or not…

i also agree, the discussion seemed benign. but, i didn’t see any temper

tantrum either.

The subject thread,

a threaded subject.

subject.

I prefer discussion

“Roy cannot respond.”

Errrr, I believe he did…

Chris,

You may not have seen a ‘‘tantrum’’, but you did see the tyranny of political correctness, incorrectly applied! The thread must have ‘‘offended’’ Paul’s sense of ‘‘fairness.’’ Is that the new yardstick of decorum for Swaylocks? Since Kelly Slater is NOT here to defend his surfing style/ability, should that thread/discussion be locked too? The question of the performance capability of the 13 FOOTER, was opened on this forum, so it seems to me, this is where to inquire about that PERFORMANCE. Don’t you think? The people in posession of the board ARE ON THIS FORUM, AND THE PERFORMANCE QUESTION WAS ADDRESSED TO THEM.

At this point, no further recital of claims or excuses, by Mr. Stuart, are required to address how the board is riding/not riding, on waves in Hawaii. This is the second time this topic has been locked by Mr. Jensen out of ‘‘fairness’’ to Mr. Stuart. Does anyone really think the inquiry into the hands-on experience of people actually riding the board, is unfair? Or do you require the input of the builder calling someone like Randy Rarick, with 40 + years experience on the North Shore, a kook? Is that what passes for (gag) fairness these days? MY HOPE IS, THAT OTHER MODERATORS WILL COME FORWARD, AND UNLOCK THE 13 FOOTER PERFORMANCE THREAD, IN THE SPIRIT OF OPEN MINDED INQUIRY INTO THE CLAIMS MADE FOR THE DESIGN. For those who have participated in the discussion of the ‘‘challenge’’ board, in past threads, I want to thank you for both the civil, and intellectual, quality of your contributions.

stuff like this and openly disparaging people that have gone to great lengths to

assist and accommodate Roy make it very difficult to continue rooting for him and

his pipeline challenge board.

Hey! Is “Roy” MetalOx?

Yeah, if that was him…getting the boot is not only fair, but ABSOLUTELY called for IMHO.

I was here on Sways when all that was happening.

I have not been around long enough to know the back story…but there was NOTHING constructive or intelligent about what he was doing.

It was a flaming, spamming, childish TANTRUM. Nothing more. I actually thought he was some 13 year old computer geek who is so bored he has nothing more to do than disrupt grown up communication. I would have never taken this person to be an adult.

He was not defending anything…he was not expressing his opinions, theories or ideas…he wasn’t even speaking to anyone…he was merely being as mean, disrespectful, and disruptive as he could possibly be (see my thread “annoyance, bug, or boot”) and making it virtually impossible for ANY of the rest of us to post anything or talk to each other.

If I where a moderator…I would do everything in my power to make sure this person could never post on Swaylocks again. Under any screen name.

As I said in my other thread…I guess it’s a good thing I’m not a moderator. LOL

I am the infamous moderator who, finding all those “metal ox”'s threads when I connected to Sways this morning, banned the user and moved all threads out of “general discussion”.

Sure enough, “Metal Ox” was Mr Stewart, he confirmed by sending me a PM AND an e-mail, threatening to play that same game again tomorrow if we didn’t lock the thread about his 13’ board.

I would have done the same with any other troll who would have spammed the forum as he did, nothing personal against Roy and my thoughts about him or his board I keep for myself.

BUT Mike Paler is the founder/owner of this site and HE decided to ban Roy Stewart. (Most moderators were in agreement of that decision, anyway, me included.) Any time Roy tries to post under a new identity, any one of us will ban this new identity.

As has already been said, there are other forums where Roy’s ideas and designs can be (and are) discussed.

For the sake of peace and quiet, I strongly suggest not to throw gazoline upon the fire, so to speak.

Thank you balsa

I’m appreciate your presence here

Mahalo

thanks for the heads up afoaf. i didn’t see it before but,

i see the “tantrum” now. and that’s exactly what it is.

obviously Roy had the chance to respond civily to the thread but chose to

act like a child… that’s really too bad.

pretty much negates my original response.

Bill, you’re right, design and construction discussion of the 13’ board along with

feedback from riders is what should be discussed here.

Quote:

BUT Mike Paler is the founder/owner of this site and HE decided to ban Roy Stewart. (Most moderators were in agreement of that decision, anyway, me included.) Any time Roy tries to post under a new identity, any one of us will ban this new identity.

FYI, Roy has been banned at least 3 times.

The other previous times the owner/moderators had a change

of heart and let him back in conditionally, even though he was

trolling the site with psuedo identities during nearly every banishment as he is now.

Yet each time, after being allowed back in, he not only crossed the line,

but threw serious insults at people who were only engaging him.

Roy has a fan club here, those that ignore his previous behavior and throw it onto others and newcomers who dont

know the bad history.

Quote:

Hey! Is “Roy” MetalOx?

Not hard to figure that one out. I am an early riser (EC US time) and saw that attempt at a front page sweep very early this a.m. I only needed to read one post to deduce the ID of the culprit. Such a juvenile tantrum. Sad, really.

I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have made the thread(s) I did regarding

the matter…poor form on my part, but I was just so appalled

by the whole thing it seemed appropriate at the time.

if I ever get the board to play with when i’m on vacation. I might just lock it up in storage somewhere till all this online hullabaloo (which doesn’t reflect what’s really happening here with the board) goes away. and everyone online has nothing to talk about or prod Mr. Stewart about any more.

all this stupid prodding and attack responses needs to go away before the holidays… I’m glad Paul locked the thread I hope he locks the rest to follow.

If you go over to tree to sea or compsand and you can see Roy can handle himself just fine as a long as he’s not being goaded into an online fight and the discussion remains purely about design just like chandler gets when he talks about bottom designs and fin systems.

we’re getting hammered by unusual bad weather(wonder why?) here where people are losing their homes or lifelong belongings, the ocean/fishing grounds are getting all polluted with massive sewage run offs and all folks can think about is a silly challenge.

haleiwa bill who has the board has had his extended family in wailua affected due to the flooding so i’m sure how and where the board rides is the least of his concerns.

maybe its a good time to just settle down through the holidays for now.

and thanks to the moderators for thinking about that…

I really don’t “have a dog in this hunt” as the saying goes, but I would

really like it if the bad feelings and comments just went away.

It seems like Roy (whoever he is, I really don’t care) gets made fun of,

and then sign’s up as a new voice to ramble on about something in his defense.

I sense there is some long term grudge going on, that would be healthier

for all if it was just forgotten.

I know at various times in my life I’ve made an ass of myself (hopefully

not on Swaylock’s yet), and I’d like to think that those I’ve offended have

dropped any hard feelings, or at least forgotten it.

So to quote that great philosopher of our day Rodney King, "Can’t we

all just get along?"

AMEN!

The mind set that one brings to an issue, whether it be a poorly sanded surfboard or the discussion in the performance of one is really the bottom line when it comes to getting somewhere in a “Discussion”, which I believe is what we’re having.

To maintain an undauntable adversarial attitude is to close all avenues for progress discussion. So I appeal to those who would want to carry on with a progressive attitude and not be worried about whether someone poo-poos something you’ve done. Hell if you cant take some criticism you can’t enter an objective discussion in the first place.

If we share our process open-mindedly we accelerate our learning curve. If that what you come here for and agree to disagree in a graceful manner stick around, if not go buy yourself a TapOut shirt and start training.

So here’s a little concise philosophy on the subject:

Gettin' It Right

So few will ever get it right ~

Seems the harder we try the less you like us:

Some get it right after they get it wrong.

Some get it right the first time.

Some never get it right.

Some don’t care what’s right,

Some never know what’s right.

The artist fancies’ what’s right

or at least that’s what she’s after,

so she makes her try at perfection;

how close she approaches it

only time and trial can decide.

Her process is a perennial march

toward a heaven she cant define.

So it would seem heaven is,

in the end, more process than place.

Mahalo, Rich

I think everyone that’s a member in good standing on this forum should be able to voice their opinions about surf related topics. Some members are overstating their opinions, that most of us are well aware of. I’m in total agreement with Paul Jensen and other moderators that have locked threads related to the Roy Stewart challenge. Most of us are tired of the circus that surrounds this event and want to move on to other topics. So I’m making my opinion clear for what it’s worth, and telling some of you guys to just get over it. If you can’t do that then join the Surfer Magazine blog fiasco. JMHO

I agree rich

I want people to let me know if their opinion is different, or if they believe the info that I share is incorrect.

I want to learn different perspectives, techniques, philosophies and perceptions.

Another wise man once said:

The moment you think you know it all, you might as well quit, because you will never get any further than you are at that moment.

Constantly SEEKING

I humbly suggest anyone who measures their self-worth based on their standing on a computer forum of mostly anonymous users needs to seriously examine their values and priorities. Going surfing or spending more time with their family might be a good start.

I see a creeping herd mentality starting to infiltrate Swaylocks: a sort of moral majority who seem unable to tolerate vigorous discussion or dissent unless on their oh-so-genteel terms.

This kind of mindset is counter-productive to any kind of radical change.

If the herd mentality prevails we’d still believe the earth is flat and the universe revolves around the earth…we’d probably still be riding 10’6" noseriders.

Progression occurs on the back of the maverick, not the diplomat.

If they transgress accepted social norms and boundaries then they"ll be outcast but at least let the discussion go on…this kind of Catholic Inquistion-style suppression of debate belongs in a soviet country.

For those whose sensitive natures take offence the answer is unbelievably simple : don’t open the thread. There are plenty of pure design threads where you can discusss the finer points of some arcane design principle in a perfectly gentlemanly fashion.

If you are interested in the bigger picture and can accept that some members do receive knowledge and inspiration from a rough and tumble discussion without losing sleep over it, then let it happen.

The world is not an ideal place any attempts to impose some sort of utopian order on things have only ever ended up in one way : tyranny.

Thanks for the update Oneula.

Steve