mas pescado por favor ... CI Fish question

I’m planning a Lis/Frye style stand up fish.

Been eyeing the CI Fish in my local shop for inspriation. It has considerable single to double concave. Thing is I was planning to do a flat bottom.

question:

#1: is a flat bottom a bad idea for a stand up fish?

#2: would the CI Fish rocker work well on a flat bottom?

#3: thoughts on the CI fish

I’m thinking 6’2"x24". I’m 6’2" 215lbs.

this board will be an eps/balsa/sandwich

i.e. hotwire rocker so I’m really eyeing the CI Fish rocker template…

thanks

Hi 4est,

I don’t think you can go wrong with a flat bottom on a fish or any small wave board. I’ve used flat, single concave, and a bit of vee on boards that have been a blast. The C1 template looks good to me although I personally prefer a fuller template through the nose and a bit less rocker. 24 inches seems too wide to me. Gonna build it yourself I assume. Build three or four and vary the numbers. Mike

Hi there,

  1. Flat bottom would be fine on a fish. My first fish was flat bottom.

  2. Flat bottom would work fine with a CI Fish rocker… the CI fish rocker is a fairly standard rocker for a fish - not too much rocker.

  3. The CI fish is a good shape… it is a refined fish shape and hence its concaves and slightly narrower nose than the original Lis/Frye shapes.

If you want my opinion (and this is just personal opinion as you mentioned you were interested in a Lis/Frye style), forget about the CI fish and get a Lis or Frye template. If you search the archives there is a good Lis template that is a 5’ 5" template you can scale up.

Can anyone help with the link?? I’m refering to the following file:

Surfboard_Design_and_Construction_1977.pdf

-Cam

4est. Flat is good and fast… Single to double is fine but is not the fastest. I prefer mild vee bottom. the vee or rolled vee make for better rail to rail action on short wide fishies

I have been doing my fish with (starting at the nose) a slight rolled vee going to a vee out the tail with a double concave starting about midway on fish shorter than 6’0". this bottom seems to work for me.

That CI fish looks like it’s got a lot of sudden nose rocker.

Most fish have no more that 4-1/4" of nose rocker… My main rider only has about 2-3/4" nose rocker…

I like’m flat and fast…

Cam, thanks for the input; I have the SD&C book (copy) and have the 5’5" Lis template from that. The 5’5" kneeboard has no tail rocker. While I’m after a Lis/Frye like fish I don’t think I want to go back to the no tail rocker era of the 70’s.

I’m not partial to the Lis/Frye except that I want a classic fish not a modern fish like the 7s, rocket fish or a fat thruster swallow tail with the wide pushed forward a little.

Mainly looking for rocker help, but all input would be great. I have not surfed a short boart sinse the mid-80s.

Rooster, sinse a fish is wider than your standar short, and my standard shorty is 10’6"x24" I figure I can go with 24" for my fish :slight_smile:

Sure it is wide but my thruster will be 22" so I thought I’d push the fish out a little. If it is too wide I’ll have to build another one. Darn.

Would love to see some traditional fish with rocker profiles. Ship do you have any on your web site?

thanks everyone

OK ,I don’t want to be a downer but if your standard shortboard is 10’6" you are going to struggle paddling a 6"2".

The fish that Shipman has been riding has almost no rocker. I laugh every time I see it but he loves it. And it looks cool. Time to go to all the surf shops and scope out all the bottom conturs and fin set ups.

Have fun.

Ray

Quote:

OK ,I don’t want to be a downer but if your standard shortboard is 10’6" you are going to struggle paddling a 6"2".

OK so I have a 9er, and have ridden some 8ers and 7ers with out problem. I was joking about the 10’6" being my short board, but it is my shin high to double over head board. Now I need a board for fast shorebreak. Ala the fish. At least that is the plan. I just don’t subscribe to the narrow school. I see a 19" thruster as supper narrow. But yes I’m not going to like the paddle out. I know that already.

Hey Ray, Don’t be laughing at my fish :+) you still want to borrow it?

Hey Shipman…

My foot has healed from slaming into the tail of your Fish trying to take off. Sorry about the ding. Yes I want to borrow the board!

My computer won’t load your last image.

Hey 4est…

19" is too narrow for me too. But 24? I can’t even get my arm around a board that wide. The greatest thing about building your own board is that you don’t have to follow any rules. Build what your imagination tells you to build !

Ray

Hi 4est,

My widest fish is 22 1/2 on the 5’10". It’s the board I have been riding the last month or two. I don’t have any boards narrower than 21 inches. I’m not built like you, either(5’9" 175lbs.). 24 inches might be good for you as I recall you being long armed and lanky from last years Sways campout. 24 inches is outside my experience and just seems pretty wide to me. I forgot to mention the rocker on the CI photo seemed too much. It all works just a matter of preference and experience. You’re just going to have to build a few of em. I hate it when that happens. Don’t you? Of course there is going to be some ajustment going from your long boards to a fish. Have fun. mike

Quote:
OK ,I don't want to be a downer but if your standard shortboard is 10'6" you are going to struggle paddling a 6"2".

Ray

Simply not true. First, I ride 10’0" to 10’4" longboards 39 sessions out of 40. I hadn’t had a sub-7’ board since the late 80’s either. I made a 5’11" x 24" fish and have no trouble paddling it whatsoever.

Secondly, I’ve surfed with 4est. We’re within 1% in any direction of the same size of each other. And the boy can flat-out paddle, all day, any board.

Don’t make assumptions. It kills me when a guy who’s used to riding your ever-lovin’ 6’2" thruster (I’m not saying this is you, Ray) posts about whether going up to 6’4" would be too much to handle or if dropping down to 6’1" would do some [fill in the blank] thing for his surfing. Inches. There are many of us who, pretty regularly, change around our equipment on the order of four feet of difference. Its just not that big a deal. A surfboard is a surfboard and paddling is paddling. You just need the proper surface area for your body size and off ya go. :slight_smile:

4est, I agree with taking down the rocker a bit. My fish is really easy to paddle (although I’d never lie and say it “paddles just like a longboard” like you hear some fish guys say) and its flat-bottomed. There’s no rocker on the deck at all, except about half an inch in the front 12". All the rocker comes up out of the thickness on the bottom, with the thickest point being right under my chest as I paddle. So the rear 65% or so has 2" of rocker, total, going from a 3" thick spot to 1" thick at the tails, and the front 35% has 3" of rocker, going from a 3" thick spot to a half-inch thick nose at +1/2". Hope that makes sense.

Later

Ben

Dang! you guys must be giants… 24" wide… Monster Fish… but yeah make what you feel works for you.

Rocker: a good starting point would be 3-1/2" nose and 1-1/2" tail rocker

My daily rider fish might be a bit flat for the average person, it’s 2-5/8" nose and 1-1/4" tail rocker

I measure the rocker from the apex of the rocker not the the mid point.

I recently made a fish for a guy that wanted a replacement for his KG LM Twinzer. I took measurements off

his KG and the rocker was 4-1/4" nose, 2" tail. too me that seemed like too much rocker.


On the tail rockers listed in “Surfboard Design and construction” you’ll find that they are all zero or close to zero. On page 49 he shows a rocker side view… I wasn’t sure if the tail rocker was actually that flat or if he pushed the tail down flat when measuring(?)

On page 104 he details shaping rocker and suggests placing a straight edge flat against the tail along the center line and taking measurements along the bottom.

Unless you are using this method to measure rocker, I wouldn’t take his raw rocker numbers as gospel. Frankly, I don’t think it’s a good way to measure rocker. After years of board balanced bottom down on a straight edge and measuring up, I now use the LeeV method and place a straight edge balanced or propped at midpoint.

Hola 4est,

My fish is taken off a Skip Frye template. Here are the dims:

Length: 6’ (actually, 5’11" and blah blah blah)

Nose: 17 1/4"

WP: 5" above center = 21 1/2"

Center: 20 1/4"

Tail: 16"

Tip/Tip: 12 3/4"

Buttcrack: 6"

Thickness: 3"

Nose Rocker: 3 1/2" (I think)

Tail Rocker: none

Bottom: Flat

I have made a few modifications to the original to suit my tastes. The nose and widepoint are not as wide as the original but we’re only talking about 3/4" to a 1/2" difference. The rails and nose are fairly thick and turned down yet still soft. The tail gets sharper just ahead of the keels and runs off the tips. I’ve also added two small 3" tab fins (courtesy of Clyde Beatty Jr.) just to the rear inside of the keels. Kind of like a reverse twinzer. Works Great!

The glass is 6/4/6 with epoxy 2:1 from Fiberglass Hawaii. Pretty light and so far fairly durable.

How about 22 1/2" wide for your board? You may find that 24" on this style of board might be too much. Even for your size. I’ve seen you ride shorter boards and I’m sure you could handle it just fine. :wink:

John… yea measuring the rocker that way would be weird… I do the balance thing but place the straight edge it at the apex of the rocker. it’s usaully near center. .

I have an old 70’s fish. probably designed to be ridden as kneeboard. The rocker measurements are 3-1/2" nose, 1-1/4" tail. That should be a good rocker for a stand up fish.

4est,

I’ve had my CI fish for exactly one year now. Rode a traditional fish in the 70’s (5’10", no rocker, very thin) and was looking for several years for the 50 year old 215 lb version. When I found a 6’6" on the racks at Channel Islands, I bought it immediately.

Love the board but it’s definitely not an everyday board. This modified fish is more forgiving but the waves still have to be right. That said, I’ve had some of the best waves of my life on this thing. On a lined up wave, it makes me feel like a 150 lb eighteen year old, but faster.

Seems to me that the fish’s strengths are also it’s weaknesses. The wide flat tail that gets you planing so quickly, and gives you such a huge platform to pump off of, also requires a different way of surfing. You’re not going to cheat a cutback by sinking the tail, and in bumpy water it’s hard not to get launched. But, with your center of gravity over the front half of the board, you push hard on a good fish and it’s going to push back harder.

If you’re ever in Ventura and want to try out my board, just give a holler. At my size, the 6’6" is still loose enough and can handle almost any size waves (provided the face is smooth!). You might decide that the board is still a planing machine, even with the narrower nose, a little extra rocker, and some tail contours. Also, I heard that there’s a guy down the street that has a board exactly like mine for sale. Rode it once and hates it! (I’m guessing that he is used to riding a thruster and couldn’t get used to the weight-forward thing.)

Koert

Quote:

If you’re ever in Ventura and want to try out my board, just give a holler.

Koert, Ventura is actually my primary surf spot. Usually C-street/surfers point. I’d love to both hook up with you (I’m digging surfing with guys on swaylocks), and would also love to try your board. I have a limitted experience w.r.t. different boards and am really digging trying new stuff. SrPato has been been kind enough to put me on several different boards. It has been fun both trying boards and surfing with new people.

I’ll PM you and we’ll hook up somethime.

Quote:
Dang! you guys must be giants.. 24" wide.. Monster Fish.. but yeah make what you feel works for you.

Yeah it will be a monster, but then I like the idea of going wider instead of longer. A +7’ fish does not sound interesting to me.

Here is my current working template.

6’2"x18"(n)x24"(wp:c+6)x18"(t)x14"(pod) 7" crack

Please comment on the lines/curve.

oh it is the wider line in the tail. the narrow lines are 17" tail & 13" pod but looked too pulled in for the 24" wide point.

Sounds good 4est… Traditional style fish are weird. you’d think you have to go wider to make up for the length. but really you don’t have too that much. Thickness maybe. Fish have the widest point forward 6" from center and a even volume thickness of foam out to the rails(flat deck, thick rails) so Most of the foam and width will be right under your chest when paddling, Fish will float and paddle like a much bigger board …I guess you probably should ride one before you shape one…