You are right - He is exploiting the system to the fullest and seeling as many T-Shirts as he can. And surfboard manufacturing is not a lucrative business. Unfortunately all that might be true, but it does’nt do much for me, as I’m more interested in surfboards than T-Shirts (and I can buy a good T-Shirt anywhere).
THe question then is raise, how does one support someone who is willing to exploit the very basis of the sport in which he supposedly holds so true and dear?
He is the picture then of “sell out” in terms of the surf culture. Volcom, Ezekiel, Hurley, etc. all sell pleanty of clothes without making shit boards, so I don’t buy that for a second. If he wants to keep his image in the water, stickers are far more popular, cheaper to ship and can be placed on any board regardless of brand.
It’s no secret that he’s exploiting surboard making, however, he is in the same light taking advantage of kids and in a lot of ways, stealing people’s money. There is a law with cars, called the lemon law, to protect against just this type of garbage. If he’s so busy working to label everything, then hopefully he’ll label his boards accordingly as well.
Soft foam, 4oz poorly glassed deck and bottom, cool looking and expensive…
outsourcing:
Corporations and stock holders are in the business of making money
and should not be blamed for out sourcing. While I would not want
to work under the conditions in many of these countries (China).
Often the outsourced jobs do pay better. If they did not, then the
workers would not take them. I do not agree with promoting child
labor, but in many parts of the world it is necessary for a family to
survive (as was in America at the time of colonization, just because
we out grew that stage {except on the modern US small farm} we
{the US} should not criticize the rest of the 3rd world for not having
out grown that stage of society development).
If the American consumer was not driven by price over quality then
there would not be a market for these products and corporate america
would make more money by not outsourcing and therefor would stop.
It is not the corporations and the stock holders that should be blamed
but the shopper. (yes, I too am to blame; I have shopped at Harbor Freight
{for tools that I view as disposable}, and shop at Walmart)
Realm:
When I got back into surfing after a 15-20yr break, I bought a Realm at Costco.
Did not know what I wanted, just bought on price. Board performs reasonable well.
Have seen other surf in the SoCal lineup with them as well. They too were happy
with the value they got. No it is not a top notch board, but I WAS not willing to
pay for that then. Now I want better quality (heavier glass, harder foam), but that
is not an issue with Realm that is an issue with cheap vs quality boards. I have seen
plenty of SoCal made boards in local shops that lack quality (read durable) construction.
This is why I too am starting to build my own.
popouts:
b.t.w. many of the popouts are coming from Europe as well. While I am a novice
if you are the average surfer I think buying an off the rack board, then a popout
from a big name shaper makes sense. Many cases it may be a superior product
to that shapers generic standard off the shelf shape (popout == eps & epoxy;
generally viewed as superior material to poly and clark, No?). Since most of the boards
sold are not custom or are people buying customs that are not right for them
(marketing) would the surfing would not be better served by popouts? Then
when people graduate to the next step of a custom board the craftsmen will
be there.
just my $0.02
–4est
OK…here we are,shaping our own boards in our own little soul shops and all of a sudden BINGO!-----The Chinese are in the Blank Market selling good stuff with warehouses on both coasts.The prices are 40 to 60% less than Clark and Walker.What are you going to do???
Exactly cleanlines, the argument is not in “USA vs. China” but rather quality versus quantity.
I’ll step up and say it. If a blank made in East Bumble F*** was of comparable quality and more easily available and 60% cheaper, I’d buy it in a second as shipping costs a fortune and takes a decent amount of time. BUT the quality and service has to be there. I am a firm believer in paying for service, it’s an intangible that most people forget, so for a few bucks more I don’t mind. However, if it’s apples to apples and the only difference is a 60% difference in price… I’m sorry, I’m no millionaire.
It’s already happened with Polystyrene. One of the biggest factors is that its so readily available and able to purchased in a sort of “bulk” format, i.e. Blocks, and cut down so it becomes more economical. So, if foam blanks of comparable clark quality were produced, regardless of origin, people would buy them.
Dealing with many of these countries is not just dealing with child labor, it’s dealing with countries that kill and enslave their own people (china) and then claiming that we all love humanity and nature so much that we join the surfrider and other outspoken liberal humanist organizations. Many of these same people happily ride products made in countries who make no effort at all to provide for their people.
Many of the best shapers began before surfing became a so called INDUSTRY so the have to do it for profit is a bunch of garbage. The so called INDUSTRY of our sport is by and large what has caused it to become a sport of whiney little brats spending their momas and daddies money on the latest overpriced name brand chinese made crap. The type of filth and attitude that most of todays so called surf companies use is why surfers continue to have the reputation as a bunch of drugged out loser youth and a over the hill adolesence that still want to wear the latest. Surf talk, the surf look, girl surfing is in, longboards are hot this year. all the sales pitches that try and push the industry of nothing is the problem with our sport/art. Volcom, Lost , Quik, Billibong and the rest have created one giant lie and take advantage of Americas obsession with looking cool. Like the commet I once heard, “when cool is a factor you have problems before you get started.”
The only pure thing left in our sport other than paddling out and catching waves are the guys who have been shaping before surfing was big and continue to produce quality surfboards that make common sense instead of following the marketing and trying to convice everyone they are some really soulful shaper guru (Biolos)
I am not against profit nor promotion, I simply feel they need to be honest about what it is they are doing instead of trying to force surfing in one direction or another through money and ifluence. Surfing is not surftech, quiksilver, volcom, GSI, or Lost, it’s a wonderful experience that has zero to do with the material world. Many of us try and make a living from it simply because we love it, not because we want to get rich at it.
For those who say they must buy a chinese crap board to save money or that stuff is good for beginners: If you can’t afford the difference you should not be buying a new board anyway and if you are a beginer or have not become skilled at riding waves yet; you should get a quality USED BOARD not a new one.
Just my 0.05
im really like what im reading…i fully agree with 4est …
im in the industry and rely on making and selling surfboards to pay my bills and feed my family …
its my opinion that the cheap imported boards are the best thing that ever happened …
by having cheaper boards around more people will be encouraged to take up surfing, so then the customer base widens ,these kids and beginers will see the need for a custom made board ,thus the established custom board builders will only have there position solidified at the top of the triangle…
one of the retailers i deal with was telling me about how you can get an asian custom…theres a brochure with tens of rail profiles,outlines,tails,rockers,bottom set ups,and fin configurations…he said people look at it ,he tells them they can have any combination of whats there…and 99% of them have no idea what works and seek out a shaper for customs…
the other thing to consider is more surfers around will need ,legropes,boardbags,deck grip,wetsuits,wax,and a host of other parapernalia…stimulating the surf industry
as far as other countries exploiting there populations…i wouldnt be to quick to point the finger…im sure many americans are enslaved to financial institutions ,have dead end 9 to 5 jobs are one of the 50% divorce rate who live in the counrty with the highest crime rate ,with the most amount of homeless people ,who watch tv to be fed propaganda about freeing enslaved people of another culture,which then gives bush the public support to do whatever he can to ensure the all consuming american way of life …at the expense of any nation who has resources america wants be they cheap labour or oil…
apoligies for the last comment as it has slight political overtones …but it came out to quick…
regards
BERT
that provides more freedom and opportunity to people from all over the world than any country in the world, that provides more food and medicine than any single country in the world;who has lost more sons and daughters for other countries freedom than any country in the world; is the first to offer aid and support to other countries after natural disasters including “hostile”(Iran) countries;celebrates diversity(in general);Is the only real symbol of freedom in the world. Just thought I’d help you out here, Bert. Maybe there it another forum for expressing American hating sentiments. I dont get my propaganda from the TV because most of American TV swings to the Left, not the Right. Just another red blooded American boy. Mike
lets face it guys the worlds in a bit of a mess and all governments have things to answer for ,im not gonna support one government over another …
it would be kool if we kept it to surfing…
sorry for changing the subject…
maybe theres some afghani or iraqi surfer out there who can give us there side of the surfing world…
regards
BERT
Rooster,
I am with you on much of what you have said, and in the end I am an American, but there is no way I am supporting hypocracy in my own country from my own government that is supposed to be of the people, by the people, for the people.
Many things we do for people come with the price of doing things the way America wants and that usually starts and ends with the buck. Don’t be nieve and think we are always or even often, “The good guys.”
Bert: on being at he tip of the triangle and imported Chinese boards and such creating interest in the sport:
Thats what many manufacturers thought before the big three autos found a way to make inferior products at a cheaper price. How many of those manufacturers are still around?
Once the popouts and chinese made stuff gets full acceptance and has tweaked it’s programs at the expense of up and coming American and Australian shapers etc. it will be lights out. The older estsablished guys that have been around 30 years will survive, but who is going to replace them? Also surfings popularity has always come and gone and usually is more tied to movies than products.
The bottom line with overseas manufacturing is we are selling our kids and grandkids futures to our enemies and others who could care less about our country. No country without a manifacturing base can thrive independent for very long.
I am with everyone - We suck (USA), but we suck the best I guess? Why are all the good socialist counties up north were it is so cold? But, back to the surf, and the boards - the car analogy is an interesting place to look. Some of the very best performance cars are still small companies and hand made, and some of the most affordable cars, which function quite well, are from Asian countries that were once considered second world, and the cars were cheap crap. But now, Hondas are one of the best, and the “big three” American are…??? But surfboards are not cars, and surfers riding surfboards are not commuters just trying to get to work etc. Like Burt said, for the overall industry, as it were, the more the merrier. Good, committed surfers will want to know about how their boards work, and who can help them with that quest, and people will keep working on boards - custom, design innovation, etc. - I am reminded of a story I read about guys re-shaping their boards on the beach at Makaha, to handle the surf that their wide long boards weren’t working in. It would be nice if surfers were the ones to stand up to big $$$, sweat shop child labor etc. But, I am not sure that will happen. Still, good to see many of us thinking.
and in the end I am an American, but there is no way I am supporting hypocracy in my own country from my own government that is supposed to be of the people, by the people, for the people.
Many things we do for people come with the price of doing things the way America wants and that usually starts and ends with the buck. Don’t be nieve and think we are always or even often, “The good guys.”
Solosan- 10:04 on that.
Besides, this last swell here it was so crowded at dawn patrol, at every break, that it almost doesn’t matter anymore.
Total saturation of the market…from good surfers - to van loads of surf school kids - to whole high school teams showing up at once.
It seems with the passing of each surf season it gets worse. Those 20 somethings on the big, heavy tail draggers are the worst, sitting in the cove and foaming at the mouth just to hop on in front of you.
Been the the Ranch lately? Forget it! It ain’t worth the gas money.