I’m glad I got you inspired, TedZ. Here’s the template, if it may be of any help:
" Minimum size to escape the “funboard curse”? "
15 " x 6’4 x 20" x 2 1/4- 2 1/2" [2 1/4 or less if polystyrene?] x 14" with a 5-6" pod [rounded square]
flat bottom
single fin [and maybe put plugs / boxes in for a bonzer runner type side setup option, if needed]
shortboard type rails .
A stubbie .
… BUT ,
if your waves are mainly mushy and knee high and under ,
stick with a 9’ + mal [‘longboard’] for glide.
just my aussie .05 [we don’t have .02’s here !]
cheers Jarrod,
ben
Quote:
… BUT ,
if your waves are mainly mushy and knee high and under ,
stick with a 9’ + mal [‘longboard’] for glide.
just my aussie .05 [we don’t have .02’s here !]
cheers Jarrod,
ben
Actually not that Chip’s mentioned it…
Why not go one step further and SUP it?
kind of expensive but you won’t find anything more fun and that’ll get you in unbelievable shape than SUPing through some Texas mush…
Kind of fits into that “everything is bigger in Texas” theme too…
Scare all the families off the beach as you pull up in a mini-cooper with a 12’ SUP on the roof…
You could even paint the deck to look like a mini Jaws…
Then blow by those guys on longboards as you look down on them paddling out and while your are steering in fly by on the smallest of waves.
CarveNalu can get you some dimensions, but 12’4" x 30" x 5" thick would be a good start.
You can treat it as another “boat” project…
Even bring your own cooler out into the lineup for a cold one like the “joker”…
sounds like a very southern thing to do…
surfing with a twelve-pack for the crew and you…
Very interesting thread gents.
George with the killer micro-insight as usual.
BUT…
call me kooky but is glide on a shorter board even possible?
its gotta come down to some basic physixs…there’s gotta be a critical length, width, volume, weight point to begin the transition to a minimal glider no?
Wrt Bill’s sage comments…I made a 7’6 “fungun” similar planshape to Black Beauty but wider. A specialty board for a rare breaking specialty wave dominated by longboarders. It has buttery pinched rails for a bit more control in OH conditions. It does paddle quite well…just a hint of glide and a bit difficult to duckdive. 7’6 x 20.5 x 2.6…Im 175lb.
First day I rode it was in chest high windswell and it turned surprisingly well for a board that long. The turning characteristics are definitely thruster dominated. With enough speed, you can stomp on the tail at the bottom lifting the front half of the board out of the water (Georges wetted comments) and thus get more short board feel. I can relate to the lightening the front half comment too to fascilitate whipping the board around with ease but I have found making the front too light is prone to creasing/buckling in heavier lips, so proceed with caution (maybe a little more dome in the deck or internal structural rib in area).
My guess is that Balsa’s 8’4 design (I like it…cool) would offer lots of glide and being almost a foot shorter compared to a longboard would help with lowering the swingweight. I like George’s comment about straighter paddle trim area combined with extra tail rocker…I suppose adding some single concave under that area would add to the paddle bennies.
hmm, this thread is now stored as a fav…thanks Gents!
EDIT:
some good stuff at Rusty’s website in the Time Machines section.
I really want to make a 69 someday.
Quote:
…
I’d say the key, either way, is very flat rocker and a wide tail. If a), I think you’d do well on a Takayama double-ender style in 8’4" to 8’6". John Mellor sent me a bitchin’ old Clark blank catalog (thanks, John!) from the early 80’s and there was an 8’6" Takayama blank listed as a “Noserider”. I can look up the specs if you want, its at home. Shorter than that and it won’t paddle with the true logs…
Generally good advice, but I’d add one caveat. My experience indicates that a wide tail in certain configurations can impair paddling through soup. I’m 6’2", 210 lbs. I currently own an 8’4" Nolte single/side bite with moderately low rocker, down rails, and a wide swallow tail. Under most circumstances it is nearly as good a paddler as my 10’ log. However, on a large, sloppy day, the tail configuration seems to create so much suck when paddling through turbulent soup that it is possible to windmill with all my might and do no more than hold place. Again, I don’t think this is a generic flaw of wide tails, but a quirk of this particular combination of design elements.
-Samiam
Quote:
You can treat it as another “boat” project…
Even bring your own cooler out into the lineup for a cold one like the “joker”…
sounds like a very southern thing to do…
surfing with a twelve-pack for the crew and you…
Since you are taking the thread in that direction, when are we going to see one of the SUP aficionados install a rod holder? I’ve fished from my conventional log, an SUP seems ideally suited to that use…
-Samiam
Wow, great responses on this one!
Yeah, that 8’4" by balsa is a very nice planshape, and kind of the thinking that I had in mind for this particular project. I was hoping that I might be able to do what I want at about a foot shorter (or more!) than that, though. I’m sure rocker and rails will play a big part as well, but that minimum length/width factor is pretty crucial.
Oneula, I am very (VERY) tempted to do a SUP project, and I still might… But it is probably a little beyond what I’m wanting to do right now. Pretty big commitment in materials, etc… Not to mention having to get myself setup to haul it to the beach! I’m pretty spoiled by being able to toss my boards in my 4runner and go, I don’t even remember the last time I had my soft racks out. Hmmm… Although it would be something very different from what I’ve been doing, a new challenge as it were, and it would be fun and interesting challenge for the flat days. Damnit Oneula, I’ll have to look into the minimum size for a SUP now!
I also found that widening the nose is great (I mentioned the nore parallel template). What I didn’t mention was for the longer boards, I didn’t widen the tail too much so I could still get a “shortboardy” turn when I rocked back onto the tail. On shorter boards for this design concept, the wide tail worked very well (like the keeled fish) but for the longer version that has the tail kicked, a wide tail was not working well.
I saw the pics of the Black Beauty and there it is, a tail a little less wide at about 1 foot up, but fairly wide about 2 feet up from the tail end.
I have a “giant short board” I use which the longboarders absolutely hate. My intention was to have a paddler that had a waterline above the bad mid-range. It is 8’6" x 21" x 3" and the tail is a bit below 14". (I’m weighing about 165 lbs, and consider myself a pretty fit paddler). Except for not having the nose wider, this board seems to satisfy the design concept being discussed here.
My plan in the near future is to build an Epoxy/Stryo version that will be SUPER fricken light. I am working with the blank manufacturer right now to build the multi-density blank. If it is anything like the board I have now (Clark Ultra Light and 4, double 4 glass) then I’ll have the ultimate board for those weak, junk days that we all suffer through…
…I can already do baby airs with my old Big Board.
I had a 7’2" tri-fin egg that fit the bill for me, back when I weighed around 210. I don’t know if I’d call it a true swim-paddler, but it paddled well, duck dove fine, and generally wasn’t a bear to manage in the water. I could turn/drive from the tail, trim from the middle, or get up front for cheater fives. (At 6’3" with long legs, those were kind of micro-movements.) And I’d say it had some glide. Certainly not as much as a classic log, but some. Worked well in all the various types of small-to-medium size or mushy waves I used it in.
I don’t have the exact specs, but Balsa’s photo looks very similar to how I remember its outline. Rocker definitely on the flat side, probably a little lift in the tail to compensate, rails not too thick. And definitely on the lighter side for its size. Damn, wish I still had it. Girlfriend talked me out of it, even though she always found it to be “tippy.” Long an ex by now, and doesn’t surf. Life lesson.
Quote:
Yeah, that 8’4" by balsa is a very nice planshape, and kind of the thinking that I had in mind for this particular project. I was hoping that I might be able to do what I want at about a foot shorter (or more!)
Ah yeah! Pretty sure it WAS Dan.
Love Sprout. The finless thruster WAS a buzz, you’re right.
7’2’’ x 17.5 x 22.5 x 15.75 x 3 thinned out in nose and tail. Rides like a shortboard…paddles almost as good as a nine footer. shaped from the old Becker 7’3’'.
Solosurfer,
that’s just about it. I bet that board rips, esp if it’s lightweight.
Is that bamboo construction over styro?
(as in a purpose-built eps/epoxy Becker surfboard)
(or is Becker 7’3" in reference to the Clark blank designed by Becker?)
Plus one,
I need to take the peter Ruckman quote from my site…folks are always confusing me with the quote. Heh Heh
The blank was originally the becker, but yes you guessed it…it’s bamboo over styro with epoxy. This board was beautiful as all Forstalls are.
Very nice Solo.
Similar to a 69 double ender…I love that woody top…very classy.
Gotta give thanks to Schwuz…I got inspired to design a new stick on the computer this weekend. Not a glider but a wide wave catcher for waist to chest mush grovel…6’2 x 20.5"…wider nose like the Piranha and a tail like the thumbtail but with an extra little pull. The center curvature is more parallel for a little better projection. I plan to make it very light so I can accelerate pump it with ease. I try to post a design pic later.
I was tempted to go longer but did the 6’10 thing for a few years and I dont want to go back there again…maybe a 6’8 someday tops.
Funny, but I figured out using MS word as a cad tool…I guess its like a cad tool for the masses…WORD
Cool thread.
hi-perf groveler design pic…
fun board curse? is that the one where
your progeny be damned to
eat packaged ramen raw while attending
soccer camp in the wetlands of okeefanokee?
the real curse is conceptual dimensions falling short of immagination.
when Joe Blows past on the way back out
perhaps he just isn’t paddling far enough
away.
that texas offshore tanquer bar wave is an
obvious alternative to my immagination.
My immagination has an advantage as I never saw the movie.
the backwash jumping oppertunities boggle my fantastic soul.
stand up paddling sure
but don forget sit down and kneel down
and the unwritten positions
of the karma surftrya.
wrap your legs arround a real fantasy ship
the curse is self inflicted
when you put that cross cut saw to work on that first cut.
there is always another board,
and sometimes its not yours.
…ambrose…
200+ lbs is not a curse
its a responsibility
the captain of the wave riding outrigger Canoe
is not often a lightweight
6 man is 42’?
combined weight is 5000lbs?
dont tell roy
he’ll feel the curse
coming up from behind
wrap your legs arround a real fantasy ship
that’s what she said…
and this is what YOU said …
" Similar to a 69 double ender…I love that woody…" etc
woohoooo …NICE one ! …I bet "rubberlove’’ could have some fun designing THAT, no doubt !
an old girlfriend of mine [ well, actually , we were YOUNG at the time !] used to really like my 69 double ender , too ! …“couldn’t get enough of it” , she said
I hope that helps , Shwuz !
Hey Shwuz
You already on a 6’1" as your shortest board…Do you still think you have the Funboard curse?
One of the above post said it well.
Can you can you actually get glide from somehing 6’0" or smaller?
Don’t get caught up in what “what it is”.
I could go much smaller in my shapes yet I like mid-lenghts and don’t care about the labels at all yet what worsks the best and gives me the most stoke.