2.2 oz innegra, $10.47 a yard, 60". If you do an deck inlay yo can get three (short) boards out of 3 yard, even four if you do a 3/4 deck patch.
INNEGRA’S - SC Enterprises | Innegra, Kevlar, Carbon Fiber, Fiberglass, Honeycomb and Resins
Real world testing just hit a little snag,
My arctic blank was supposed to arrive around today. I made the call, where is it? “Oh, you won’t get it today, we get it in our shopany day now from our factory in Ensenada.” I ask, “so when does your delivery truck come up to Ventura?” answer, “In about two more weeks, if we have enough other orders.”
Switching from Arctic yellow to U S Blanks Orange. Pick up at Fiberglass Hawaii, A 6-9 EA Stringerless, maybe by Thursday. How is that for service. Thanks Steve if you read this!
[img_assist|nid=1067663|title=Cerex over paint|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=583|height=331]I did a little something different. Painted the blank black. Put two layers of Cerex on it. One against the foam, one on the surface. The Cerex doesn’t go clear like fiberglass. It makes a marbling effect.
Also like Llilibel mentioned when he used skinz. If you put it on the surface make sure you don’t sand into it. Easy to avoid on the flats, but might be an idea to cover the rails with a fiberglass tape.
[img_assist|nid=1067873|title=Cerex Bottom|desc=|link=none|align=right|width=378|height=664] Cerex N-Fusion. A combination of Warp Glass, S Glass, D-Cell, and N-Fusion. Flex engineered.[img_assist|nid=1067872|title=|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=407|height=715]
Whiter than white! N-Fusion titanium is so white, it makes FCS Fusion boxes look yellow!
Looks nice mark, ride report??
This one isn’t for me. A little to small for me too.
Lots of figuring and experimenting. Nylon on the bottom, nylon on the top, how do you do nylon on the surface, since you can’t sand it or it fuzzes. How do you keep the weight down with nylon since it like to soak epoxy. How do you bag it and get tight rails since it isn’t woven and won’t drape.
Lots of figuring!
@ everysurfer
Yeah that does look white. actually slightly purple/blue white based on the pictures taken in shadow.
You took your cerex material from test panels to a finished board. Good job.
It’s refreshing to hear you say you’re " figuring and experimenting " . A humble man realizes that every current and oncoming day is forever a “learning experience”
VH.
Just my crappy cell phone camera. It is pure white. On the deck there are two layers of fiberglass, one full layer, and one half patch. That along with the nylon. The two layers of warp look green compared to it.
The Coil secret is out. Titanium oxide white on nylon. ( or that’s my guess, and I’m sticking to it)
Keep guessing, because that's not how we do it.
But I'm glad to see progress, you're ahead of 99.99% of the ''industry''. Good to see someone try to break out of the 4oz/PU habit.
So you did two different boards? On black, one white? Were the schedules the same? Did you lap the cerex? 1.7 oz? I’m curious about it because I had difficulty lapping rails with the .7 oz stuff. I’m a little bit disappointed with th board in that there is deck denting- but hey, there’s less than 8oz of cloth on the deck (.7 skinz, 2.2 innegra, 4 oz S glass). I would say it’s denting less that a standard 4/4 deck, maybe like a 6/4? it is also very white, but the innegra has that burlap look. Maybe replacing the .7 with the 1.7 would be the little extra to save the deck.
Of course the twinzer thing has me totally enthused.
Were heading up to Mendocino/Trinidad. I’m bringing the twinzer. And my 4/3 and hood and booties.
Hi Llilibel,
The black tail I posted above was a tail rebuild. It had too much rocker, so I stripped the tail, added some corecell, and laminated it with cerex - 4 oz - cerex. I liked how the painted foam and white of the Cerex gave a stone washed denim look.
The white board was for someone else. He saw how the black tailed stringerless posted above was working and wanted one. Really, it was making late drops that I normally would not have made. I let another friend take a few waves on it and he was really impressed by the ride too. But he was also not willing to pay the extra cash for the extra trouble in the work. It gives a much better end product, but doubles the labor involved. And cheap surfers don’t want to pay. Pretty short sighted in my opinion.
Yes, you can wrap the rails with Cerex. Relief cuts are mandatory, as well as taping down tight your peel ply. Here is one more hint. After you lay out you wet out table prepared lamination build up (glass and cloth) onto the board, take your scissors and cut away the excess fabric. You can’t easily trim wet fiberglass alone, but when it is wetted with the Cerex, the two become attached, and you can cut an exact line with no fraying. You can also cut your relief cuts perfectly. Anybody want to do a perfect free lap with zero loose strands?
But if you are going stringerless, and are relying on the lamination schedule for stiffness, then you can’t do the relief cuts, at least not in the fiberglass portion. The best advice I can give is to make test samples before doing a board. To design for denting, the placement and order of fabrics can change. Back in the locked Cerex thread, I found out that the same weight of fabrics had different properties depending on how you stacked them.
For the best dent resistance, I really like taking out the stringer, and adding a higher density layer. But again, where you put it and the order of the fabrics really matters.
industry
Just got bask from plaskett camp out. I met an engineer who designs bike helmets. Had a good hour or so talk with him. His take is that similar strength materials need to laminate next to similar strength materials, and follow an order, Meaning hardest on the outside. Second hardest next, and so on until the softest core. Has to do with the materials shearing. Stiff and hard next to soft and flexing will shear easily. Shearing layers is the first step in a puncture penetration.
We were talking before about the order of Cerex in a laminate. Cerex between two layers of cloth, like safety glass? Instead put the nylon against the foam, with all the glass to the outside. Another layer of Cerex could go on the outside, to act as a buffer/ bumper.
This is also the answer to the polycarbonite shrink wrap/ glueing to the foam. It needs a layer more elastic than the polycarbonite, but less elastic than the foam.
If the shrink wrap guys want to complete their design, shrink wrap polycarbonite alone against the foam won’t work. It needs a fibered layer between the foam and plastic. Harder than the foam, but more elastic than the plastic cover. That means don’t use fiberglass but something softer.
For a well made board, the shrink wrap alone isn’t the answer. But if you want to eliminate the sanding/ polishing, etc. then it is doable.
Use of an “elastic” glue is a standard principle when you glue two parts with different elongation properties. That’s why, for HP industrial sandwich panels, gluing resin is not the same as laminate resin. Use of higher elongation fiber, like polyester or other plastic fiber (best in veil configuration) to improve bond of laminate was explain by Greg Loeher and others here 2 or 3 yers ago in a post about diolen and RR2020. If you want a real advantage of this you must use an higher elongation resin.
Shear a foam near the skin is the way sandwich panel breaks : compress thin skin buckle, shear in foam increase when foam break skin is free and break.
To increase strengh of panels, industrial builders use Z-pinned (a bit like hydroflex), stitch accross the core or other kind of laminate stabilizer.
Sorry for my franglish
Hi Lemat,
Diolen is no longer manufactured. The company who made it sold out, and the plant shut down. It is a type of high tenacity polyester fabric. Can you share what elastic glue you would recommend for the sub lamination?
You still can buy some diolen in Europe, here for exemple : http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/Products/Kevlar-Aramid-Others/Black-Diolen-200g-1200mm.aspx.
Diolen is the name of a european producer, it’s high tenacity polyester fiber, called xynol in US if i remind well.
I use an epoxy glue between foam and fiber, i make it now myself with a specific local brand of epoxy+plastifiant+microfiber+silice coloïdal.
Sorry for my frenglish
Thanks Lemat!
Easily bought from Defender.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|10918|16458|309346&id=16176
But it is available in 4 oz. Not the lighter weights. So to use it on a board, you would tend to use it instead of fiberglass, instead of a complimentary layer. Much different tensile strength properties than fiberglass. I think I’ll stay with the N-fusion for now. But the idea of spackling a blank with an elastomeric layer has me interested.
Silicone “seam sealer” as a spackle http://www.schneemorehead.com/pdf-sm/SM5504TDS.pdf
Just saw this video, the top board makers and their take on modern materials.
Maybe I have it all wrong. It seems that those in the know think all the new tech is not the right direction. (I’ve been told that sarcasm doesn’t translate well on the internet)
central wooden stringers , polyurethane cores , 4 oz e-cloth , and polyester resin is the best !
lol
haaaa’’ so funny’’ how many around that table have been hands on. as far as the tech you have clashed with me about?
look in the dying shaper thread see my quote. as old as it is ( there they are.)
** it explains the difference **
one is all about money the other is about the best way possible to improve his craft
so keep pushing the boundries
better than sitting around a table swimming against the tide
cheers huie