I just got some hemp and want to vac bag it under 1 layer warp. I searched archives and saw the vac bag outer layer discussions, but not sure how throwing the hemp in would change things. here is my idea so far
outside to inside order
bottom 1.warp or sillk
hemp
eps
hemp
warp
exposed cork
would you use peal ply? or maybe something else. I saw a lot of tech in archives but not sure where to start…I have only vacced cork well so far, the ouside lam I did with my vac was real bad. I used saran wrap on outside and it was real wrinkly.
I was hoping to get to a hot coat like stage with this one though. It would be cool to sand a and finish coat out of the bag>
Not an expert, ive done a fair bit of external vac bagging with peel ply with down hill skate decks, usually with fabric over a layer of heavy 450 gsm dual bias cloth. Peel ply is your friend. i have been thinking about doing it with surfboards and i think there could be issues with removing the peel ply after the resin has cured. It can be a seriously heavy effort to pull it off. but it may be easier with the lighter cloth and therefore the lowwer amount of resin bleeding through the peel ply.
Ive had an idea that a rectangle of thin ply, with the middle cut out and the peel ply taped to the rectangle, wet out the glass the sit the tentioned peel ply over the board and then put the whole thing in the bag (with some appropriate rocker control under the blank possibley outside the bag). If you do this with a bleeder cloth over the top the vac should pull out any air and the tension should reduce the ripples. it just wont allow for a lap around the rail.so maybe you could tape the rail 3/4 of the way around it? this would mean you would just have to give it a little extra attention sanding it.
I am an expert and I don’t understand your order of layers.
regarding peel ply. Once resin is cured it can be removed a decade later if wanted. It is the whole purpose of peel ply. To protect whatever you are making until it is needed for the next step of manufactuirng that piece or part or surfboard.
Peel ply can essentially give you and laminating and filler coat in one step. A final coat with make the surfboard pop. Final sanding and polishing or spraying is needed after that.
Peel Ply should always be used with exposed cork sections.
Don’t use it with wood planks.
I would use it with the 1/40" veneers.
Lots of vac baggers hear poo poo the peel ply but I will let their results speak for themselves.
pics peel ply coming off and the final coat prior to sanding
Do you live on Oahu??? If so PM me and we can get together and I can show you. Your questions tell me your vac bag experience may be low but the build you are trying to do is sort of complex in my opinion. There are dozens of things to consider in what you want to do. Is it possible? Certainly yes. You need a solid plan to pull it off though.
I tried the inexpensive peel ply and hated it. It didn’t want to release from a wet lam. I would imagine it quite sufficient for cork or maybe even wood as long as those weren’t being completely infused with resin.
For wet lams I use the better (more expensive) peel ply. On the last wet lam I bagged I just ran the lamination really dry, rollered it with a laminating roller to force out air bubbles and stuck it into a new bag and smoothed it down for the wrinkle free finish. . I got a 75% fill that is just right for a no-finish deck texture. Since it didn’t completely fill under vacuum, that’s how I know I didn’t leave a lot of excess resin in that lamination.
Been using peelply for 26 years now and have never, as in never, seen or been able to use it over. Are we mixing up terminology here??? Peel ply over fiberglass of any flavor makes a super tight bond to foam as noted by no need to sand rail lap. Also as mentioned before, it eliminates the filler coat process. And depending on the type of peel ply used, no sanding or prep needed for next process of build. As the word peel ply suggests. It is the outer extra PLY that can absorb and transfer resin equally throughout the layers of fiberglass prior to the fiberglass curing and then be PEELED off. The peeled off result would be that of the sheets of a teenager’s bed after a week of nocturnal ejaculation episodes. Using again as you suggest is something I don’t understand.
Pic of peel ply texallumium over something called clark foam.
No mix up in terminology. Use a wet out table, and pull off the epoxy to the point where it is so lean, it won’t stick without bagging. I paint on some epoxy to the rails to help the bond there. Then, don’t rush. Let the epoxy thicken just a bit. So the cloth is sticky, but not dripping. Compoflex to cover it. You get some spotting, but I can use, the same ply for the deck, the bottom, and then some composite fins.
don’t understand. The peel ply under vacuum lets you get consistancy of resin from foam to outer shell when it is in the liquid state. Of course if the epoxy is set up or gelled prior to putting it on it will work fine as a bag protector and the function and purpose of it is otherwise wasted. Off label use in my opinion. Sounds like you have system that is working for you though.
It is still very much in a liquid state, just a bit thicker.
Part of it comes from the fabric I use. The colored nylon shows saturation more than clear fiberglass would. So it is obvious when the saturation is even. A dry spot is lighter colored. Wet cloth looks darker.
As for the foam bond, I use non woven nylon against the foam as a sealer. The non woven swells like a sponge to hold a controlled amount of epoxy. Once it swells up you can’t miss. That swelled cloth holds just the right amount. When put in the bag, under plastic, not peel ply, the pressure squeezes the right amount of epoxy down into the foam. The woven outer layer can be done really dry, because it is getting glued down to the under cloth, not pourous foam.
My first ones are about two years old now, and no delamination.
It has more steps, so it takes more time. It isn’t practical when the market wants cheap boards and bro deals. It is practical if the board should last years, and still look new.
well. i just shaped a paipo out of packing foam for my 4 year old son this morning… This will be my first hemp test. I got a tomo like shaped and waiting if it goes well. I think i am going to try the wet out table with this one. how does this sound?..seal blank with qcell and epoxy and while that is wet add hemp that was wet out on table then add dry warp…squeegy it flat , put a layre of plastic on and vac it.
?
or order peel ply? where has it best price in hawaii? I am on big i . the price was holding me back a little in the beginning, but th out of the bag pics of bb30 boards look awsome.
Sounds about right. Just a thought. When trying out something radically different, do a test run on scraps, rather than a shaped blank. I saved myself tons of sadness by not ruining a board, gallons of epoxy, and yards of fabric by testing my ideas on scraps.
so you have to do a filler coat still??? Missing out on the peel ply benefits with 6 more ounces of resin. IF you got it nailed you got it nailed. Still can not wrap my mind around peel ply being reusable even with your percise detailed method. Makes no sense to me with decades of peel ply use. I am confused with your post because you state you use plastic and not peel ply. If that is the case it makes sense.
I like my finishes automotive gloss, so I still do an epoxy finish coat to fill the peel ply texture/ smooth out the little ridge at the cut lap. (side note, I use a small block plane to detail the cut lap after the razor cut.) Then UPOL spray, and buff.
The painter’s .04mil plastic is the cheapest release film there is. I use that for the Cerex non woven layer, where micro wrinkles in the finish don’t matter. Compoflex peel ply/ breather is the best I’ve found. I use that for the outer lamination. Mine look a lot like yours when they come out of the bag.
As far as getting to the point where the peel ply stays almost fresh, all I can say is try the method. Wet out table, over an already sealed blank. Part of it could be the compoflex breather wicking away the epoxy thet would normally saturate the normal peel ply.
