Bert? Anyone? Has anyone tried strategically reinforcing stringers with graphite fibers (not weaves)? This seems like a viable option to dial-in flex with added strength and minimum weight. If you don’t over do it with the graphite you could maintain the wood is good feel. cheers, Brennan
Where can I see “Understanding Aircraft Composite Constructions”? thx
You rock Bert - you and Greg are taking swaylocks to the next level. Love it. I was just re-reading “Understanding Aircraft Composite Construction” by Zeke Smith, trying to get inspired. The farthest I got was mulling over a horizontal stringer attached to the deck-side sandwhich. The floating stringer is ingenius.
Feraldave ,
Are u talking about KT from Bangkok ?
Cheers mate …
cant believe that …lost my whole post …
anyway on a completly different note to the original post i lost …
i just opened the door a little , so you get a look down the hallway …
show whats possible , building sandwiches …
regards
BERT
So simple and yet so brilliant!
Reminds me of the leaf springs under the back of my truck.
I see the hallway, but it’s horizontal and seems to be floating…
dave,daddio, yea i did consider that …
i actually offered this concept and the method of construction to cobra …
they didnt even want to sign the original non disclosure agreement … there attitude was along the lines of ,theres nothing new you can show us ,
this is just one of a number of techniques and concepts ive employed over the years …
needless to say cobra never got the information , i wasnt giving it away for nothing …there arrogance to assume there now leading the way in construction development surprised me …so i figure lets start showing the world some stuff and maybe show all of cobras construction techniques while were at it, and then see how competive they can be in a custom epoxy board market place , given the choice between a surftech or a custom sandwich , the markets choice will be obvious …
you can show where something is , but it still doesnt show how it got there …
soon much will be revealed …
the asians can copy , but designing based on local conditions will always be the domain of the custom board builder, i think they have to remember where there original ideas came from in the first place …when my pvc arrives , ill show how you can make a custom sandwich …
but ill stop short of showing a balsa sandwich and some of my unique features and methods of contruction …
then we will see who has a technology advantage …surfers building boards near the surf , or asian reproductions of the real thing …
so this posting was somewhat calculated …so either theyll sign up , ill shutup and get paid , or all relevant technology will become common knowledge and the surfboard industry will get back on a level playing field , and then i will probably end up with some new opporunities somewhere else down the track …i favour plan b , in fact plan b has already been decided …
once you learn to use the vacumn , just like a planer or a sander , its just another tool in your workshop …
what it does , is open up a whole new world of posibilities , which is only limited by your imagination …
the next generation of board builders will take this construction to a whole new performance level …
the biggest reason true performance lies with the up and coming board builders , its conditioning …
for forty years boards have been built the same way …
so concepts about design and what a surfboard should look like are all based on existing boards …
thats why companies like surftech are still wallowing performance wise …
they have a new technology with new materials , based on old concepts and ideas …
when you change the materials you change the performance characteristics , so you have to design the board based on the nature of the materials and construction …
the problem so far is so many knowledgable shapers are having difficulty letting go of old concepts they know to be true … but those concepts are only true with regard to conventional construction techniques …
younger shapers exploring these materials and construction techniques wont have there judgement clouded by old concepts , so they will make the changes that will be obvious in regard to the materials …
the shapes you can do with vac sandwiched technology are physically impossible with conventional construction …
thats probably the biggest obstacle at the moment to new constructions with new materials taking off … that obstacle is the notion of what a surfboard should look like , its rocker , rails , over all thickness distribution …
as soon as more people start to realise that curves need to be more extreme in certain aspects of design , so you can reach better performance levels with new materials , thats when we will see a wider acceptance of these concepts and construction techniques …
it wont happen overnight , but it is happening …
guys like greg with his refinement of resin systems and willingness to give access to new materials will really pave the way for an exciting new creative period in surfboard design …
and it will be totally independant of corparate manipulation and marketing hype …
grass roots …lets go surfing and make it better …
regards
BERT
Bert, can’t wait to see it… the core.jpg inline pic did not load. Can you repost it please, thanks.
no matter what i do that pic wont load ???
o well maybe another time when its feeling better ???
has it got anything to with whether its been posted before on another thread as an attachment ???
coz i couldnt load in another few pics some days back which had been posted before as attachments ???
anyone know ???
regards
BERT
Here’s an idea I had while looking out the window watching a very large construction site: perhaps we can learn something about stringer construction/alternatives from the innovative methods of framing buildings so they can withstand earthquakes.
Rigid but flexible; could be something to learn.
Rigid but flexible; could be something to learn.
Aw gee - don’t get me started!
My father is an architect and that industry is so “top” heavy with government regulations and ego-maniacal “designers” (bigger, higher thrust onward) it ain’t even funny.
Walk over to that construction site and have a couple of workers lift a 2"x4" x 12fter up over your head and then tell them to let’r go…OUCH !
What if Bert and Greg were house builders? hmmm… I see a steel perimeter frame and wood/epoxy over styrofoam core panels for walls and aluminum/styrofoam/wood veneer/epoxy roof panels. Yeah - you’d have to anchor that sucker firmly to old terra firma or you’d be getting air like some Broward(?) County grom every wind storm - but you’d survive an earthquake!
Here’s the scope of what is about to be going down…it’s all going to change, big time, some will go with the flow, some will never change and some will ease into it.
Our kid’s-kids will be exchanging board shapes like mp3’s. There will be sites where you can down-load a “Tom Blake” or an “Al Merrick” and the designers or their estates will get their 5 bucks, as it should be. You’ll be able to make a complete board in your garage and epoxy it without pissing off the neighbors. AND you can take the foam scraps to be recycled. Or take it to someone like HDX and get a pro finish!
Not only that, if Cobra doesn’t pay to shut up Bert, the revolution will be televised.
Here’s a factoid to throw the internet trolls off the scent!
The largest Great White Shark ever caught measured 37 feet and weighed 24,000 pounds. It was found in a herring weir in New Brunswick in 1930.
Greg , Your a popular guy !
Aloha , Clyde Rodgers Edge Fins Kauai
GregT, I PM’d you about the book… you can get it from amazon but if your not and the states let me know and I’ll send one your way. It’s written for the non-engineer but it’s great for grasping the concepts behind shear forces, skin buckling and stiffener design. Once you read it you’ll understand that surf technology is woefully under-advanced - especially when compared to winsurfing, even more so when compared to aircraft wing design. We could learn a lot from RC plane hobbyists. With proper skin re-inforcement (ie; using variable sandwhich thicknesses or curved stiffeners) you can dial in flex or strength where you want it. good luck, Brennan
Greg
It’s been a long time since we crossed paths. I hope all is going well for you. Remember this board from like 85/86.Quite a jog of the ole memory required… It’s seen some of the biggest Reef Road of all times. I’ve ridden it in Cali from Sunset Cliffs to Malibu, Mexico, Hawaii, the entire east & west coast of Florida, Abaco, Costa and Peru. yep that board has been some places. It even survived 17 foot hollow grinders and held the line well. I still take it out every now and then. Count me in on the new tech board. Drop me a message when they’re ready.
this makes me wonder… why all the effort to make new blanks and composite combinations… here is a board thats lasted 20 years! greg how was this one made? what kind of foam resin combo… other than the yellowing from age i see its in great nick. in fact its in better condition than any thing ive seen come out of most base level major production houses after a weeks surfing…
why all the effort to make new blanks and composite combinations… here is a board thats lasted 20 years!
Not to speak for Greg, but much of the performance in the last 20-30 years has come from making boards lighter at the expence of strength and durability. With the work people like Greg and Bert are doing we can go even lighter while returning to stronger boards at the same time.
Boards were “regular” then “light” then “classic” weight Clark foam densities. Now for performance shorties we are down to “super light” and “ultra light”. Then for glass we’re gone from 8-10 volan down to 4oz. No wonder most modern production boards look used up after a few weeks of hard surfing.
At least that is my take on “why bother”,
i agree with 4est …
i also would like to know if that board was built any differently …
regards
BERT
captainEd,
Did you take care of it? - you know - fix dings and other necessary repairs? Did you get a lot of air on that puppy? How thick is it one foot back of the nose tip? Was it shaped on a machine? Is it an asian import? How come there’s wax almost to the nose? Did you have to replace your FCS plugs more than twice (a year)?
Nice stick, man…bother on and be excellent to each other.
Did you take care of it? Yes and no. I was careful with it near rocks, concrete and transportation. I let the few significant dings go for long periods of time but I used stickers to cover them and they seemed to completely seal the ding. I later fixed them correctly although not professionally (there is a big difference and I respect the art of boardmaking/restoration and repair to acknowledge myself for any more than a common hack in board repair).- you know - fix dings and other necessary repairs? Did you get a lot of air on that puppy? Yes, particularly in Hawaii and San Diego. The board doesn’t like waves smaller than chest high. Especially if they are of the FL mushy, slopey wind chop variety. How thick is it one foot back of the nose tip? Was it shaped on a machine? It was shaped in SE Florida by Greg. Is it an asian import? How come there’s wax almost to the nose? A few reasons. Mainly, because years ago while I was in Hawaii surfing very hollow, powerful 6ft surf I had a bad accident. A fin 3/4 of the way through my leg. I took off late and had moved way forward to scream down the line. Back then I only had two sections waxed. My front foot slipped forward off the board on an area just outside the waxed spot, causing it to plant in the face of the wave, causing me to do a split, causing me to get sucked up the face, go over the falls on top of my board, have a hole punched in my leg and reef rash all over my back and shoulder. If I had had wax there it would have never happened. Trendy or not I had three months, surgery, pain and bills to re-evaluate/contemplate waxing the majority of the deck. Did you have to replace your FCS plugs more than twice (a year)? Never replaced anything but the leash. Even the trac is original…
Timely Bump?
Greg did not invent the parabolic rail it was Matt Biolis .He really has made a huge impact on the surfboard market.I love him but I am not gay but lost is.He reminds me of Nev!!!Wanker