New EPS Tech Soon

I posted this on another thread but I thought I’d repost as a new thread as there is some new information here.

EPS is a superior product that is right now going through some vast industry upgrades. We are starting to see that the 2# density stuff is rapidly becoming the standard everyone is using. Look around, everyone in FL, all the guys in TX and now everyone in Santa Cruz, which includes M-10, Stretch and Coffee. In San Diego, Mankind and Rusty are moving the same direction. Like JTroy said, everyone who’s using XPS is having issues with the stuff. They use that material because you don’t have to seal and most of the industry epoxy newbies think sealing is just too hard. Those of us who have made a living building epoxy boards know what sealing really is about. This is a 5 minute job using water based material that any high school kid can come in and do after school. It take almost NO SKILL to do. Back when we used XPS we ended up sealing it because that was the only way to solve the blowing problems during lamination. If I’m gonna have to seal, I’m gonna use EPS because it’s just so much better material.

Everyone will soon realize that the 2# density EPS is THE BEST FOAM MADE for making standard, shape and glass, high performance surfboards. It will soon be the industry standard over urethane. Why, because IT RIDES BETTER. Read what “Shaper of the Year” Stretch says in his interview, “None of my team riders ride polyester boards anymore.”

Insulfoam is also, right now, introducing foams of higher density as well. All the way up to 4#. So, if you want a superlight weight blank in EPS that’s a 2.5# density. If you’d like a supergreen, that’s 3#. If you’d like a classic weight, that’s 3.5# and for tow boards and heavy longboards you have 4#. None of the EPS foams over 2# density leak any worse than a urethane board does. Unlike urethane and XPS they almost never delaminate. Strength to weight compared to urethane is through the roof. It is VERY temperature stable and doesn’t need to be vented. Break strength on the same weight density is MUCH higher in EPS than in urethane or XPS. Sealing is the only small downside and should NEVER be the reason for using another inferior core material.

I started with EPS almost 25 years ago and every few years that industry comes up with new tech that improves the product. This latest product improvement, higher density foams, makes EPS everything that urethane foam dreams of being. And you know something cool. They don’t have this in CHINA!!! So get with it folks. Join the future where the imports can’t go. Build better CUSTOM product than they can produce out of a mold. Blanks are now available across the US, stock or custom built to your specs.

Segway in SoCal

Hydrofoam in SoCal

Resin Research in FL

Codacore in FL

Chafin blanks in TX

S-Foam in TX

Shuler Systems in OR

Sorry if this sounds like hype but the truth is staring you square in the face. The EPS guys just upped the ante and urethane is no longer, structurally or in terms of performance, a competitive product. The imports have no edge anymore either. A 2.5# density EPS blank with a 6 double 6 opaque laminate will make any Surftech look silly by comparison. And it’s CUSTOM!

And by the way, you want to change flex characteristics? You now have a choice of four different resins with four different flex patterns to choose from. Try that with poopie. Try that with a molded import. We have the materials available to take the whole thing back, right here, right now. Stop fighting with the wrong materials. Change the systems that need changing to make the best product you can make and stop wasting time on dead ends.

Hey Greg - Any news if we will be able to get 2#/2+# at prices closer to Home depot/xps - or if it will become available in sheets, so we can do as we see fit with it? I talked to Lanny S. last month - he said he was out of 2# - haveing trouble with his supplier. His price for a stringerless “blank” wasn’t to bad @ $50, but @ $100 for the plywood stringer, which I thought - plywood - sounded funny, but then I read “Stretch” say he uses ply… Is it really better than solid wood? It seems it would be heavier. Keep up the good fight. Taylor

Greg,

Quick question for you. What would you recommend as far as foam/glass/resin combo for a mini-gun for Florida waves?

For a bigger wave board would you recommend going with a more flexible resin (here in FL anyway) ?

It’s time for a new mini-gun for winter and I’d like to get EPS/epoxy but I’m not sure what I should ask for to keep it from feeling overly stiff and chattery in bigger surf.

I know im not greg, but I just finished an EPS/epoxy board. I used a blank from www.sfoam.com . they make really cool blanks w/ the perfect flex that I needed. instead of wood stringers, you cna get a high density PVC stringer that flexes more than Arnold Schwazenegger in his body building days. Its flezy during shaping, then stiffens up some when using 2 x 6 oz deck, 1 x 6 oz bottom…E-Weave glass. epoxy I used was from surf source, but their customer service sucked (switching to RR now…which is also slightly cheaper). make sure you do the glassing in the right temperature or the epoxy wont bond right (maybe it was the surfsoure stuff i used?) I sealed using spackle (i used fiji water and white pigment to thin it up and get it to the right color). EPS/Epoxy is HOT…its sexy and easy to shape and not nearly the same smell/toxicity.

so…

foam: sfoam

glass: 6 oz E-Weave…can get it from surfsource.net or clark foam

Resin: Resin Research

the flex is produced in the stringer. sfoam makes stiff (wood) and flexible (PVC) stringers.

does that sound right Greg?

Maybe it’s just me, and the fact that I write professionally, but I have a hard time taking seriously anything published (internet or otherwise) with the word “poopie” in it.

yeah greg, i realized this about 2 months ago but did it the hard way thru trial and error…glad that things are headed in the right direction

lawless, one of the keys is thinning the board but i would also add that the advantge of light eps/epoxy dimishes as you get into bigger surf (not saying they dont work good)…when the waves get big and powerfull a good poopee works fine as will a good epoxy (but a thick stiff surftech sucks)…in avg hotdog surf where most common surfing is done, there’s no comparison, eps/epoxy rules.

I agree, I think it tends to drive people into camps based on particular schools of thought and hinders people accepting different technologies.

Thanks Scott,

I guess my question should have been more pointed and asked which RR resin would work best for a mini-gun with a 2# and 6/6/6 glassing.

I’m currently riding a 2#, wood stringered, 6/6/6 RR epoxy 6’0" RocketFish and I’m loving it. It’s held up beautifully through constant abuse and is over 1lb. lighter than the exact same board in Poly with 6/6/6 glass.

I rode a 6’4" EPS/Epoxy that used RR epoxy in well overhead, choppy surf and it felt chattery, like it was overly stiff. I was wondering if using a more flexible RR resin like 2020 would be a benefit in a mini-gun to decrease board chatter over the bumps and chop.

RR comes in a few different varieties:

http://resinresearch.net/_wsn/page2.html

I’m guessing 2000 & 2020 are the ones most typically used with surfboards.

Poopie is Sways for pu/pe (polyurethane/polyester). Common term here. I wasn’t hot on the term myself at first but it tends to grow on you and is way shorter to write. I write some myself (mostly surf mags) and as hard as it can be, occasionally you just have to give in to colloquialisms … dude.

For stringers, I use PVC mostly which seems to also be on it’s way to the mainstream. We began using the stuff years ago because the quality of wood is so inconsistant. The PVC was also more flexible, people liked the way it rode better (generally) and it’s ability to handle shear loads far out distances wood. Plywood is alright if you get the right stuff. Bending ply is the right stuff and is certainly better than the general stringer stock used widely.

I’m sure Lanny will figure it all out shortly.

“poopie” is not shorter than “pu/pe”.

In my opinion, whether they are in common usage or not, “Dude” and “poopie” are both childish.

First off, make the board a bit thinner. The chattery nature has much to do with the fact that the materials are more efficient, your traveling slightly faster and the lower density of the core is slightly more buoyant. Many don’t realize that what their actually feeling is a board that is too big for them. Making the board the right size (a bit smaller than you would for PU/PE) will solve lots of issues. Also, if you want more flex I would first suggest using 2020 on the bottom of the board and 2000 on the deck. The bottom of the board is where you’ll tend to like the extra flex (movement) while you’d generally like the deck to stay firm. This goes along with a lot of the theory’s on flex that have been posted here in the last couple years.

Greg, i guess i like the term poopee (ha!) but you can use pupe just the same and i suppose it doesnt offend some of the more sensitive crew

funny but they pronounciate the same, pu/pe or pupe or poopee…still has the same affect

just to be fair and balanced:

eps/epoxy

epsepoxy

epepoxy

eepeeoxy

peepeeoxy

peepee!

peepee is mobettah than poopee

hey its friday, have fun and have a great weekend gents…

In my opinion, whether they are in common usage or not, “Dude” and “poopie” are both childish.

Right. I suppose the act of surfing is a very mature, serious and business like endeavor.

Lighten up, dude.

Uh oh - sorry Keith. I added it to the Swaylopedia back in July. I guess it’s legit now.

Right. I suppose the act of surfing is a very mature, serious and business like endeavor.

Lighten up, dude.


Sage words for the phrase coiner himself.

And isn’t that “lighten up Francis”? (lets see who gets that one)

Hey, Sways looks different…

Eps is so easy to work with. Push the bow over the top rocker and pull the bow for the bottom rocker. (thanks Airframe)

And Resin Research is a blessing, easy to use, and tastes good too.



Tastes like chicken soup.

It’s so easy…

Quote:

Hey, Sways looks different…

Eps is so easy to work with. Push the bow over the top rocker and pull the bow for the bottom rocker. (thanks Airframe)

And Resin Research is a blessing, easy to use, and tastes good too.

Which is better, hotwiring your rocker out of an EPS block, or gluing EPS sheets to both side of your pre-shaped stringer to bend in the rocker?

lighten up francis? … thats a phrase from “malcom in the middle”…dont know where else its from.

The hotwiring of the block would be the best, especially with the higher density eps foam that the new tech will bring out. Tasty…