And by “sweet” i mean, sugar-based…saw it snooping around the net, thought it was definitely worth a discussion.
http://surfermag.com/features/onlineexclusives/iceninefoamworks/
will it desolve like a sugar cube when it gets dinged?
I’d be willing to give it a shot if it’s cheap, available, and more environmentally friendly than EPS or PU.
What if youre traveling and get stranded somewhere desolate; can you eat it?
If so, will my Mum get upset for eating too much sugar?
The sugar based foam is a polyurethane foam. Maybe a quick description of the families of polyurethane would help.
Polyurethane is a two part chemical reaction that mixes isocyanate with polyol. Your basic A/B mixture.
On the isocyanate side of things one uses either TDI or MDI. TDI is the higly toxic chemical that created most of the environmental issues for Clark. MDI is much safer to use and requires less safety and health equipment to utilize in production. MDI was invented decades after Clark started but is the choice of most of the polyurethane industry at this point. Our sugar foam is a polyurethane that uses MDI. Homeblown also uses the more environmentally friendly MDI as Ned does a great job of keeping focused on greener alternatives, however the majority of the other surf blank companies still use TDI.
On the polyol side of the reaction there are two basic selections: polyester or polyether. Both of these can be made from petroleum products, however the polyethers can also be made from plant matter, most commonly either soy or sugar. In this case we chose to use a sugar based formula. The general term the industry uses for the plant based polyurethane is biofoam, however Homeblown has applied for a trademark on the term BioFoamTM to sell their product under so I want to make a clear distinction so as not to tread on Ned’s trademark.
CAUTION: DO NOT PUT SUGAR BLANKS IN YOUR COFFEE! IT IS NOT EDIBLE SUGAR!
We are not yet ramped up so availability is limited currently but we have sampling programs underway in Florida, Cali and Hawaii.
We are located in Orange County and would be happy to give a plant tour to interested Swaylockians. Hit me with a PM to set that up if you are so moved.
…“Swaylockians”…I like that!
Have there been any comparisons made between your foam and Ned’s current formula. Density, gradient through the blank, ease of shaping with blades and drum, cost?
As far as cost, is your sugar based MDI prone to the crazed price hikes we have historically seen in refined sugar? Isn’t soy a lower cost alternative…tell me what I don’t know.
Live long and prosper.
I do not know of any head to head testing done on the Homeblown’s BioFoamTM vs. Ice-Nine’s Cane. I believe that Homeblown’s product is soy based. Both of us use automated dispensing equipment so there are similarities in the even density gradient as you cut into the foam. I have no data with which to compare the relative densities.
As for the ease of shaping, etc. I would be a huckster to go too far down that road so PM me an address and I’ll have a rep drop by a sample. You can then decide for yourself on those critical issues.
As to the pricing it is important to differentiate between the cost of production and the cost to the buyer. We are finalizing our price list but to give you an idea we have a California list price of 37.17 on our 6’-6" High Performance Shortboard blank, which is a close tolerance blank. Prices will be a bit higher in Hawaii and Florida to cover shippng costs but we have been able to negotiate favorable rates to keep this discrepancy to a minimum.
Sorry I don’t have more hard comparative data to share.
I’m guessing it’s NOT hot-wire-able?
If it is, is it available in stringerless planks?
Thanks
Hope you guys get into marketing eco resins and cloths too.
Sorry to say that it is not something you want to hot wire. As with all polyurethane the smoke created by the hot wire burning the foam is toxic.
Thanks.
A sample can go to Attn: Bruce Fowler
c/o Beatty Products
208 Gray Ave.
Santa Barbara CA 93101
That is a very good price. Does this include a stringer and if so, what is it? I’m currently compared what is offered amongst other supplliers and it varies significantly. I must say that Homeblown had very impressive (and generous) ply stringers whereas Surfblanks kinda unnerved me. I like how SB has organized their molds into “famiy trees” whereas HG has very limited blank options at this time (although they are working on at least 6 more right now…which is important. U.S.Blanks probably has the most.
I think we will see how all this hashes out with blank suppliers depending on unforseen legislation, individual internal factors per company, and to some extent, price. Most of the blank pricing has been very close, but as you and I well know pennies equate to dollars by the time it hits the retail showroom. There is a popular supposition out there that you have to be the cheapest or the highest and everyone in the middle faces extinction. I think that’s a bit too dramtic, but there will be a very definite attraction to us little custom guys that will support a lower priced quality blank.
If I get too big, I’ll sell like Al and start over. I’d rather be in Paris or Cabo.
Howdy Bruce,
Our rep will be in SB next week and will drop one off. It has an 1/8" bass stringer. We could supply the sample with the 4mm poplar unidrectional plywood if you prefer or with a bass stringer of a different thickness. Let me know your preference. Our standard would be the 1/8" Bass wood.
We also have taken the family approach to organizing our blanks: High Performance Shortboards, Utility Shortboards (fuller then the high performance boards), fish, hybrids, guns, high performance longboards, regular longboards and utility longboards.
Thanks,
LT
Great. Just use your standard stringer…close tolerance blank. Be sure to put “Fowler” on it so no one pinches it. Look forward to seeing what you have.
Ooops…forgot to mention something that you might keep in mind as you develop.
With anticipated suppliers I have requested full length center slices about 1/4" to 3/8" thick to create my rockers. This is a convenient and great way to create custom rockers whether I transfer them to wood, masonite or rolled up butcher paper that can be easily mailed to you.
Food for thought…thanks
tyrant,
do you have any blanks 23 1/2-24" wide? Or are their plans for wide blanks in the future? if so how long? cost? thanks in advance..
im planning on a 6’3 x 23 1/2 kneeboard …
…this shouldn’t be an issue as the blank guys can add foam in the middle to widen blanks. Costs go up accordingly to satisfy your need.
Quote:
Great. Just use your standard stringer…close tolerance blank. Be sure to put “Fowler” on it so no one pinches it. Look forward to seeing what you have.
Aloha Deadshaper – It’s great that you are back in the saddle again!!!
It is wonderful that you can take the time to articulate some of the information locked up in your head. I’ve been reading some of the stuff that you wrote last night. There is so much knowledge there, thanks heaps. Glad you are here! I’ve got a picture of BK’s mutifin board from his paddleout
which multi? I have the 8 finner here and will post it when I figure how to.
If you have the decafin (10) by all means stick that photo in here or send an attachment to me at the_surfing_underground@yahoo.com
whoa!!..sick board…hows it go?,any more pics dead shaper?
We are currently getting the first set of 12 of our eventual 51 molds running so many of our sizes are obviously not yet available, however in this first set of 12 is our 6’-9" Fish Blank which is 24 1/4" wide. Maybe this would work for you.
Also in these first 12 molds are the 8’-4" Hybrid as well as the 9’-4" Hybrid wich are 24 3/4" wide and 25" wide, respectively. Unfortuantely this is a lot longer blank then you are lookning for but I mention them anyway as they meet your width requirement.
These blanks are still a few weeks out as each mold is machined from aluminum and then plumbed with a water cooling/heating system, assembled and then dialed in so it unfortunately takes a bit of time to get each one on line. The first 12 should be running by early July.