Names Ian and i’m from the great landlocked state of Pa. Been surfing now for about 8 years and i am finally going to tackle building my first board. I am waiting for green light surf supply to get their 6’8 blanks in before i start rounding up all thats needed. right now i am riding a 6’4 canyon quad fish. which i love up until it gets head high or bigger. then it becomes a hassle to try to duck dive or get out past the slop thats usually found on the east coast.
so my first board is going to be a thruster type set up. something that i can take out on those big days and duck dive. but before i start to really figure out the rail designs and stuff i thought id ask you guys a few questions.
I am 6’3 200 pounds. I figured that a thruster of 6’6 to 6’8 would be tall enough. not sure on width or thickness though. what would you guys recommend?
glassing usually calls for 2 layers on top and 1 on the bottom. but when getting tossed off the top of a wave i have dented the bottom of my board with my knees. could i add a second layer on the bottom without adding some thickness to keep it buoyant. if i have to add some thickness how much should i add as a general guideline? i would like to keep this board for awhile with out getting it all dented up. i might even try 6oz glass instead of 4oz. unless you guys think that it would become to heavy.
Rail design. during big choppy surf i have been catching the softer middle rails on the fish. ruining some great waves. should i keep the rails sharp edged starting 2ft from the nose back? middle back? i know that they have to transition nicely. just don’t want to keep catching rails.
thanks guys for putting up with my noob questions.
When you come in to pick it up I’ll spend all the time you need to go over your design and construction techniques and answer any questions you have.
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More glass is fine, and, from what I understand, you are “catching” rails due to width and lack of rocker, maybe in the fish, soft fins are forgiving… But, then again, as I write, I don’t even know what you mean for sure about “catching” a rail anyway… I still think rounder is more forgiving…sorry long achy week, and it’s just begun… full of second guesses, but I still stick w/my answer… Ha!
i live not too far from you in west chester, and build boards out of media. if you need any help, or even want to drop by the shop sometime let me know.
my $.02 on your questions -
1- width 18.5 to 19.5, thickness 2.5 to 2.75
2- yes you can do two layers of glass on the bottom also, although you may just want to use one layer of 6oz cloth instead of 4oz. i dont think its necessary to add any thickness (guys feel free to correct me if im wrong). i just did a 6’8’’ round pin for myself for this winter and glassed with 3 layers of 4oz on the deck and 2 4oz on the bottom. i did this for the same reason you are considering. the board is a little heavy, but no worries. as we both know, winter surf around here tends to come with strong winds and surface chop. the added weight helps a little with these conditions.
3- i may be wrong on this but i think that the problem you are having with the fish in bigger surf is the thickness of the rails (fish tend to have thicker rails than a thruster) which tend to get pushed away from the face of the wave. on my boards i tend to have a fairly soft rail til about 16 in from the tail. (this is a generalization and the start of the hard edge is dependent on fin placement) if i may throw in a little tip for ya - dont make the hard edge too hard when shaping the board. i tend to round my off a little so that the cloth will wrap around easier during lamination, and then build it back up with the hot coat and define it while sanding.
good luck on your board bro. brian is good friend and a great guy. he will treat you well.
I’m a bit of a newbie here too. Only been a member for a few months. But in this time I’ve learned more about building boards then the last four years of searching the internet and libraries. All the guys here are great and unselfishly share their hard-earned experience. I’ve been involved in other online build forums (mostly sailboats and such) and this is the best forum I’ve ever seen.
I agree with Brasco about glassing the bottom (although my experience is admittedly limited, I’ve only got a few boards under my belt). But one layer of 6 oz. should help without adding too much weight or thickness. This is assuming your current board is glassed with one 4 oz. layer on the bottom. The first board I built was glassed with 2 x 6 on the deck and 2 x 4 on the bottom. With the first bottom 4 oz. layer cut to the rail line and the second 4 oz. layer lapped over the deck. Both layers of glass were layed out and glassed together. This requires a bit more resin (compared to one 4 oz. layer), but not enough to be noticable (IMO). My uncle helped me build this board 9 or 10 years ago, he thought I’d be beating the crap out of my first board. Compared to my next board of comparable dimensions with a 1 x 4 + 1 x 6 combo glassed together (plus 4 oz. deck patches glassed on first) on the deck and a single 6 oz. on the bottom, I hardly notice any weight difference.
Anyways, just my $.02. Good luck, keep us posted. Don’t be shy either, at this place no question is too basic and no question is a dumb question. Believe me, I’ve asked a bunch of them.
what i mean by catching a rail is i stood up and start to go left. front left of the board dropped in deep into the face of the wave and just stuck. throwing me for a nice mother nature tumble.
most of my knowledge is in snowboarding and i usually associate surfboard rails with the edges of a snowboard.
sharp edges hold while more round edges are more forgiving.
thanks guys for welcoming me to the site. i’ve learned more here in the last 3 weeks then ever before.
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but if you “pearl” on your take off, it could be you. Stand up in one motion, NOT leaning forward when you do so. On your drop, it is critical that your balance be neutral.
After that, a few things in the board that affect the take-off
Flatter nose rocker paddles faster, and catches easier, but is less forgiving.
Concave in the nose area acts like more nose rocker.
A narrow nose will let you start your turn higher on the wave face. A big wide nose gets in the way as you “spiral” down the face and into your drive. A wide funboard wants to keep heading toward the shore.
Concave provides lift. Anywhere it is in the board wants to ride higher out of the water. If you have it in the tail, the back will lift and the nose will drop! If you are having trouble with the drop, a little V releases the pressure under the board, and will keep the tail down.
haha. it very well could be me. it was a choppy day, and i was getting tired. but it has happened on more then one day during different head high condition.
2.so i could get less nose rocker but increase the concave and still end up with about the same as more rocker and less concave?
3.Narrow nose will be a definate given on this board. need to get in quick and get moving before i get crushed.
Thinking a single concave starting 6-8 inches from the nose? increasing in concave towards the middle and then getting flat right around the fins into a slight V shape after the fins?
I am looking to build a board that can be loose and fast, can go straight and hold well in a barrel type situation but when the waves are choppy and sloppy, it can be loose and i can have some quick turns and cut backs.
is that to much to ask in a board? should i build two?
A board that is “forgiving” means less likely to dump you off if you get off balance. On a free fall drop from the lip, will land and stay above the water, as opposed to burying the nose.
Yup. But there will be some difference between the two. Nose rocker is more in effect when the nose is in contact with the water - when paddeling, bottom turning on a steep drop. Forward concave rules when the board is in trim - when the front foot of the board no longer toughes the water. Concave is not in the front foot of the board.
Good idea!
Start the concave at least a foot from the nose. At this area, it should be gradual. Max concave under your dominant foot. If you weight your front leg more put it there. If you turn more off your back leg shift it back a little.
For barrels where I want to keep the nose up, I put V in the tail. For mushy waves where it is all about keeping up speed and lift, concave all the way out.
Depending on your ability level, one board might work. If you have the skill to notice the difference, more specialized boards to specific conditions opens up your surfing.
my dominate foot is my back one so ill continue a single concave( not trying a double on my first board) all the way through. not sure which is my dominate foot. i sometimes feel that i use my front to push and stuff but in turning i usually push my back?
i know for snowboarding my front foot is dominate and i ride the same way for surfing.
you guys have been very helpful.
just gotta get my blank and get my outline, the rest has be figured out by the very helpful people on this site.
Does the 6’4 fish resemble more of a Steve Liz type fish or a modern fish? Is it real wide and thick? I don’t have any advice to give you but I personally (at 210 lbs) have had difficulty paddling a standard,6’6-19.5-2.5 tri-fin in bigger, choppy surf. I imagine that going from a 6’4 old school fish to a 6’6 narrow, thinner thruster being difficult (for me at least) Im curious what the experts would recommend going off your old boards dimensions. Please keep us posted on your progress. Good luck!!
its a modern style fish. when i get a chance to take a picture of it i will. its fatter in the middle then my 7’4 funshape! looks like the shaper took a fun shape and trimmed the nose and tail to make it look like a short board but never took out any thickness.