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Hi Bert -

I’ve followed the development of Gary Young’s, Randy French’s and your sandwich composite technology. I don’t pretend to know what’s going on. I’ve yet to see any video clip other than the Bufo clip that shows anybody doing the trampoline thing like that.

Do you think it’s for real? Do you think a Sunova would stand up to it? I know a Surftech wouldn’t. You have posted a photo of one of yours that was broken but I have no idea what the circumstances were.

That little clip is one of the most compelling things I’ve seen. How do you think they’re doing it? Urethane resin?

john, there was a guy in japan that was importing sunovas. his website had video of a guy jumping up and down on a board. his website is down now though. i knew i should’ve downladed it, doh! maybe someone else has it.

edit: doh! number 2, look at my avatar, ha ha ha, bert provided those pics from the huntington event.

edit #2: original pics here

AST is pretty cool . . . Rich Harbour experimented with it . . in his forum, he posted that the problem it has is that most glassers did not want to touch the stuff since it gave rashes. He couldn’t find any glassers to glass his boards. Also tinting with regular pigment didn’t work etc . . . I remember they came close to a few primary colors and surftech-ish types. But that was a long time ago.

One post said they took a board at chest level and dropped it on the floor and it didn’t ding. But a drop like that with regular resin . . . In any case they are from where I live, but so far I haven’t seen any boads like that . . .

The Harbour posts are gone since they clean out their archives or something . . . Maybe he can fill in.

it seems the challenge is to make epoxy boards feel like poly boards.in some cases that is the most desireable.like i posted before, this is going to be a change for the better-people are talking, exchanging info and experimenting.this could perhaaps be the next greatest revolution in surfing since greenough in the mid 60’s…

Hi Mottola -

Those pics ARE impressive but what strikes me is that the board is flattening out against the ground and then is fully supported while the clip of the Bufo board shows it supported only by a set of saw horses.

I glassed a longboard with epoxy and was able to flatten it out by standing on it. I surely wouldn’t have been jumping up and down on it with only the ends supported.

Also, Mark Tolan from AST was kind enough to reply to my email. They are still in business and can sell any amount from a couple of gallons to a truckload. I don’t know if Bufo is using the same type of resin that Mark is selling but I hope to find out.

Quote:

ive heard from crew in france recently who saw the bufos ,and talked to crew about them , that they use XTR core foam …

Hi Bert, I’ve heard that as well. I’ve also heard he’s using a sort of roll with nails on it in order to make tiny holes all over the blank. The purpose is to give the laminate a better grip, to try to cope with the delam problems of extruded foam.

Hi Pierre -

Do you know if they are using urethane resin? Any idea on glassing schedule?

Thanks!

Apparently he’s using epoxy resin (vacuum bagged), no stringer and XPS foam (he’s also been experimenting with stringerless PU).

Bufo also says that on the key is to put the same amount of fiberglass on top and bottom. The resin is not the ordinary epoxy resin. All I know is that its german epoxy.

Maybe, he reads swaylocks and could tell us more about it…

yea ive got some german epoxy , but its a deep green colour , so has no cosmetic properties , but has some good stats on the data sheet , i keep putting off using it …

on the web site they said they were jumping on a 2.5 kg board , no problem , weve been using a board the same size for jumping on, that is 1.850 kg …

if we put another layer of 4oz either side and got the weight up to 2.5 i would be confident to do the same , maybe not me at 100 kg but definatly someone at 60 or 70 kg …

i would say tho that the board there killing would have dents …

also i can guarantee that if they are using XTR and punching holes in it for a bond to try and stop the delam issue , then the holes will cause other problems with the structure of the board …

i would say the video is real …

i do however think that trying to get epoxy to mimick polyester is a waste of time …

i say just build it , feel it and make the needed design changes …

right now im going through this issue more than ever as my construction is being exposed to a new audience for the first time …

one ex pro today was drooling over his new board , but i will be really surprised if he comes back liking it , because it looks like the sort of board he would normally ride in p/u …

i explained that once he rides it then we have a place to start and can refine from there …

crew have got to get the image of a good board out of there head …

and just ride what works in the tech , rather than enforcing there p/u p/e concepts …

its a seriously hard road when your constantly meeting opposition …

i would love to take a bunch of surfers blind folded to the waters edge , and just put them on something fins and all so they dont even get to see what there riding beforehand …

its so difficult to get unbiased feedback when the surfer already has an opinion before he even rides a board …

so new stuff definatly has to have a new attitude if its to work better than what we know …

trying to mimick the feel of p/u p/e just wastes all the potential of better tech …

ok gota go …

regards

BERT

gotcha john.

I like this notion Burt. One can get a ep/ep to “feel” the same, if the atributes are changed during construction. The board I made was thin, per some of what I had read from you, and had a bit of a heavy glass schedule… But in the end it ended up feeling like any other pu/pe board I have had, save the choice bottom conture which gave it a sweet off the bottom like no other… But, that is a different story! Ha! (R.I.P. my “new blue” - buckled in half in heavy overhead reef surf…) Keep up the good work - and thanks for sharing. TaylorO

Well, Sven at Bufo was kind enough to respond… seems like they’ve been working hard at R&D after winning an international design award which led to some financial support from universities and Volkswagon.

I also received a video clip that showed a 2.1 kg board supported on each end with 4 people standing on it and gently bouncing. The board was flexing like mad but didn’t break.

Here’s a slightly edited version of what Sven had to say.

(posted with his permission)


i checked the post on the swaylocks site. very interesting what the people

think about our technology and the way we reach the strength of the boards.

to make a long story short:

we dont use ast resin because it is too complicated to handle, too expensive

and from our point of view too toxic.

we dont use xtr blanks. it is good stuff but it does not really work in our

system. all components we use have been modified for the usage in our system.

we really tried a lot in the past and tested a lot in france but we had

really hard problems to combine all the components. in the beginning

we tried to make little holes in the blank but bert burger is right it

causes a lot of problems in the construction so we stopped doing it.

we tested over 100 different resin systems from all over the world but we

didnt found a solution which works in every detail.

we also had no money for r&d because we are a small company. we won an

international design award in the beginning of 2005 for the bionic

construction concept. the most important thing in our concept is that the

construction is designed by nature. we copied the construction of a special

plant which is very robust and transformed it to our surfboards. because of

this we were able to work together with universities and the volkswagen

network in germany. they paid the r&d costs and we could modify the resin

and the foam for our special needs. the aim was to build a better, stronger,

lighter and flexible surfboard production process which is environmentally

friendly and can still build full custom-made.

i am not surpised about the clark foam story because the components they use

are the most toxic components when it comes to cancer and we found out that

they will be forbidden in all countries which care about nature and the health

of workmen. the same with other very toxic things like polyester and some

epoxy resins. i also think that we all have to change in future because the

common way of producing surfboards has claimed a lot of victims. many people

in the surfboard industry are sick from the toxic shit. it is not a solution

to stop the production of blanks in us because it is too toxic for americans

and to start it in poorer country without environmental laws. we really

have to stop poisoning people who build surfboards.

we are relaxed now because we know there is no need to let the custom

surfboard die. it was our biggest nightmare to see all the shapers closing

their factories and surfshops where you just can buy pop out shit in.

if you have any question please contact me. but sometimes it takes a few

days because of the clark story we are very busy at the moment.

you can post my answer in the swaylocks forum if you want.

sorry for my english.

best regards

sven

John,

Sorry to wake up an old thread… but… I recently saw a couple of Bufo’s and from the looks of it I am guessing they use some sort of high density parabolic stringer (on the board I recently saw there was a parabolic series of lines just visible, like concentric circles) but I can’t be sure without destroying one. I’ll keep my eye open for a broken one. On another note, the initial stoke for bufo’s seems to have subsided a little bit and I am hearing tales of the flex wearing out and the boards going sloppy. Other than that I think it is an epoxy resin, at least on the outside, and it isn’t clear, damn tough though I am guessing industrial grade stuff used in concrete re-bar reinforcement or the likes.

On another note, has anyone ever played with vinylester resins?