Nose rider - single or double concave

I plan on shaping a Model T style noserider from a 9’9"W. I have been examining a few longboard movies in slow motion. Looking at them it seems to me that a double concave would work better than a single concave for soft railer. It seems to me that a noserider which rides parrallel to the face usually has only one side of the nose engaged. I reason that teardrop concaves facilitate the escape of water on the dis-engaged side. A double concave would direct water under the board and lift the nose. Has anybody tries this ? Any ideas comments ?

neither …keep it flat in the nose …no contour ,any contour you put under the nose will only slow it when nose riding thus making the tail drop out …i recomend a book from the libary on physics …examine the principle of centre of mass in relation to centre of pressure…contrary to popular belief a concave in the nose will make a board nose dive even worse especially in flater waves … good luck with what you find ,you will be blown out by the simple logic of applying physics principles to board design… regards BERT (‘;’) |"| have fun go surfing …

On the contrary, I have an old 9’2" Renzy deep dish concave nose with fixed side bites and adjustable center fin. I use it on the Gulf Coast and have used it on the East Coast also. I’m here to tell you that I LOVE it. If you think you’ve lost the wave, you can stand up and get to the nose and it’ll take off on you. I’ve gotten more nose rides on my Renzy than I have on any one of my other longboards. This board is as radical as a short board yet can ride like a longboard. I’m going to have another one shaped just like it. Good luck and keep surfing.

i have no doubt you love your board i would be real curious if you reproduced it exactly but without the nose concave would it be better or worse??? most guys attribute differences in performance to the first noticable difference in design. ive had great boards with nose concaves and ive had total pigs with nose concaves, depending on what board someone rode they could brand an obvious feature like a nose concave to be total crap or unbeleivably good but in reality it was the other aspects of the boards design that really made the board ,but those other features were way less distinguishable to the naked eye … regards BERT

Bert, I am interested in seeing what others have to say about this. Robert August was quoted as saying that Wingnut won’t let him shape concaves in the nose, but on the other hand, if you look at a Nuuhiwa Noserider, it has a teardrop concave that goes half the length of the board, and Joel Tudor has said that that noserider is the best he’s ridden. A noserider can’t be too fast, because it will outrun the wave. So a little slow-down is actually good. The most logical explanation I’ve heard explaining a nose concave is that it disturbs the water under the nose, causing it to funnel toward the small end of the teardrop, giving lift. Can you give us a layman’s version of the physics principls you’re talking about? Doug

Bert, I strongly disagree about the speed issue. The best noserides happen at the slowest speeds. Tails pull out only when going fast, watch any of Herbie’s movies. McTavish, Harbour and others are doing slotted bottoms under the noses, that seems to be one way of keeping flowing water closer to the wave face rail. The flat bottom nose does ride well on the nose, look at the Blue Machine, Peck Penatrator, Surfboards Hawaii nose rider, but they all have lifted tail rockers too. I prefer a blended concave rather than the tear drop, but they look cool and the public accepts them

nice …if you look at a dart or an arrow it has a centre of pressure and a centre of mass even if you throw a dart backwards for it to remain stable in flight the centre of mass must remain in front of the centre of pressure …centre of mass the heavy end …centre of pressure the tail causing drag. a little drag in a nose rider is good keeping it back in the curl but to be stable and controlled the drag must come from further back on the board, put a feature in the nose they creates drag and tail will want to over take the nose just like if you took off fins first, a nose concave must be compensated for with even more drag in the tail for it to remain controlled and keep the tail at the back then your just making you board stiffer and slower …i was stoked to pick up the latest issue of pacific longboarder the one covering the oxbow world titles theres a small picture of one of my team riders in the aussie section justin redman hanging a sic ten, hands behind his back yet on that same board hes launching air 360 s and backhand 360s plus doing full vert lip attacks hes doing stuff no one has done on longboards before and yet his boards are nothing like anyone elses …thought provoking… people make boards the way they do because thats the way everyone else makes them no questions asked …one more laymans term if you had a flat front tyre on your car it would pull one way you could fix the problem by making the diagonally rear tyre flat as well then it would pull the other way to compensate problem solved but in the mean time it takes more power to push and is harder to handle … hope this helps … regards BERT…

Well, I can see this is going to be a long thread. I’ll throw my 10 cents in really quick before things get heated. [smile] The Nuuhiwa Noserider had a massive concave in the nose. The Weber Performer had belly in the nose. There are many popular 60’s era noseriders that all work great. I have ridden so many different noseriders over the years, and guess what? They all work different. Some of them like to hang deep in the pocket (narrow boards with a lot of belly) and others work better further out on the shoulder and through the flats (Wide ass boards with concaves) And many others that rode somewhere in between. I think it has a lot more to do with what works for you, not what works for somebody else. I personally do not think that there is one particular bottom shape for everyone, just like everything else with surfboards, everyone is different, so everyone’s board is different. If that wasn’t true, then we could all just buy the hot new surftech noserider and be done with it right? I personally have HATED every single board that I have ridden that has a flat bottom in the nose.(Too side-slippy) On the other hand my good friend (Tanner Beckett) absolutely loves boards with very flat bottoms in the nose. (his favorite classic board is the Hansen Competitor) I love blended concaves… he does not… so there you go. It’s all about experimenting and developing your own personal preference. -Carl

bert im glad you brought up yhe dart/arrow thing. one of my other things that i like to do is shooting a bow and arrow, the most accurate arrows are ballanced on a razor then measured from the center this way you come up with a p.o.b. or point of balance. 8-12% wieght forward produced the best results, if you used a hunting broadhead " lots of turbulance" you had to adjust with larger fletching “feathers”- to stabilize the arrow in flight.kinda the same as nose concave- this is why for noseriding poeple use tail kick, pannel fins,trickfins , etc… also longer heavy arrows are more stable in flight & accurate than shorter lighter ones,not just a theory ,a proven fact. just like longer heavy boards are smoother and noseride better.also flex in a arrow shaft is important, this is commonly known as"spine" to light and flexey and the arrow will be all over the place, to thick of a spine “stiff” and it will be a dud, but that arrow will have a shit load of knockdown power ,it could punch through knights armor “drive”

i have a locally shaped 9’2" with a concave in the nose and a yater signature 9’10" with no concave and BOTH ride incredibly nice. its all preferance. its not the board, its the rider!!!

i also agree that the best nose rides happen at slower speeds, i tried for a long time to nose ride at higher speeds on larger faster breaking waves thinking this would provide more lift- WRONG! the best 10’s " for me" were always on small clean waves on VERY heavy long 50-50 railed kick tailed nose concave boards ,similar to a model-t type boards .right from the curl, the board is almost not moving, but yet your still up there,throwing spray of your rail- what a rush man.

“…its not the board, its the rider!!!” Jones- True dat! -Carl

a heap of good points with good logic …i think my original response to the nose rider question was slightly out of place ,i missed the key word “noserider” ,and carls answer was right on the money ,my ultimate goal as a board builder is gain the most lose the least, there heaps of trade offs all the way,what i really had in my mind was a board you didnt comprimise performance for nose riding …the original question was aimed more specifically at the ultimate nose rider sorry i missed that one… there was a point about flat noses being slipery yes with single fins they are way more prone to slip off the face but with a thruster set up a flat nose works well but the rider has to compensate a little be weighting up the rail closest to the beach and the board tends to crab a little with the nose pointing slightly to the beach ,the biggest bonus with this is when you step back and drop down your board is ready to go in that direction coz its already slightly pointed down i find you you can be in nose ride ,drop down and step back and then straight back to the lip and to the nose again a lot quicker … ok thats another thought there… regards BERT

Ok we are back to the beginning WHAT ABOUT DOUBLE CONCAVES IN THE NOSE!!!