Noserider Rocker (reversing the blank)

I’m going to be shaping myself a noserider soon and have been wondering about the rocker. I’ve read about people reversing the blanks to get some flip in the tail rocker. This is supposed to help hold the tail into the wave, thus holding the nose and rider up.

I have the profiles for a 9’6" longboard blank already made (for hotwiring EPS) and have been looking at them. The board I made with this rocker has been great, a nice cruiser, but made as a user friendly board, and when I have stepped up to the nose, she just bogs down, literally like the brakes were put on. I think this is mainly due to the amount of flip in the nose rocker. Too much curve so the water doesn’t flow easily as I step to the nose, no flow = pushing water. I’ll attach a pdf of the board here.  … rocker/propfile is the one mentioned, though the template is wider than what I have on the existing board.

I hotwired a blank using this profile just recently (board for a friend) and was looking at it with the reverse in mind, and it seems to me that there might be too much flip in it.  I was thinking that I could maybe reverse it, but then cut off about 2" from the tail (what was the nose). This would mellow out the flip somewhat.  I would then go with a template similar to the one on the pdf, 23 1/2" with 18 3/8-1/2" nose and tail around 16".

Any opinions out there on this idea?

 

You are correct in your belief.   Proceed with your plan.

This in theory is correct, but the “reverse” rocker that is glued strictly for nose riding and flipping the blank around are quite different. On a stock blank the curve from the nose hits much further up the blank, as for the planned reverse rocker, the tail flip is kept closer to the tail and leaves more of a planing surface ahead of it.

Bill Shrosby did this for a hot young kid to emulate the Nu’uhiwa rocker, but after adding concave to the equation the kid said it felt like he was always paddling up hill.

Blair and US blanks have reverse rockers in the catalogs designed for noseriders

So generally the curve is flat until the end of the board, then it accelerates out?

This is the pic of the rocker that I have templated.  Not sure why the PDF didn’t attach to my first post.

Rocker/Outline

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would this curve work?   When I looked at the blank that I have cut for my friend, I thought that reversing it and cutting off about 2" would make it, but not totally sure.  Its the first full longboard profile that I have made. Happy with it otherwise, but I want to try getting to the tip.

I’ll look at the US Blanks catalog and check out there curves. I have wanted to try shaping some PU foam for a while, maybe this will be a good excuse to go for the cost of getting some up here.

edit   Would that be one of the Yater blanks you are talking about?

I’m also planning on making myself a wood glass-on fin for it. Trying to decide on a hatchet style fin like so: 

fin

Or a D fin :

D fin

What is the ride difference between the two?

Have a look at the old Clark Foam PDf catalogue. There is a blank called the 9’9"W which is the rocker profile you should aim for with an extra 1/2" in the tail. Pay attention to where the apex is. This blank saves you having to reverse the blank. I wonder does any other blank manufacturer replicate the plug.

I was just going to suggest looking at the old Clark Catalogue and check the various miltitude of rockers listed there.  Jimmy Lewis uses a rocker set up for his noserider that originally was a reverse.  It is based on the Nuuhiwa(sp?) Model.   Can't remember as I don't have my Clark handy .  Lewis may have been using Walker for his Noserider.  The rocker is essentially the same on a Nuiihwa Surftech.  I had some blanks milled at a CNC on Sand Island a few years back and we couldn't duplicate that rocker with the blanks I was using, so we changed the rocker to something that would work on the blanks I had available.  Later someone mentioned to me that I could have done it easily by swapping ends and rockers on the machine.   Lowel

In the print out you have, the center portion of the board has a pronounced curve, this is where the trim/gas pedal area of it would be.

Drop the curve out from center, flattening the line towards the tail, then meeting the point it is in now, also carry the line lower to the nose, lifting it close to the tip. When you plane in a concave under the nose, the rocker is raised up in a new line.

I hope this makes sense

Heh.  Can’t make that out 100% from your words Jim. Can you help me visualize it ?  

Drop the curve out from center, flattening the line towards the tail”   as in. planing the blank to flatten out the curve at the center of board?

“then meeting the point it is in now, also carry the line lower to the nose, lifting it close to the tip.”   ?? Not sure here …

Thanks for any thing that you can teach me. Can be difficult over the net.

 

[quote="$1"]

Have a look at the old Clark Foam PDf catalogue. There is a blank called the 9'9"W which is the rocker profile you should aim for with an extra 1/2" in the tail. Pay attention to where the apex is. This blank saves you having to reverse the blank. I wonder does any other blank manufacturer replicate the plug.

[/quote]

I used the Clark catalog to make my profile templates, but I used the Rich Harbor blank.  Looking over it now, the Yater or the 9'9" Wayne Rich as you said, look like much flatter curves.  More suited to noserider ??

A comparable blank from US Blanks, looks to be either the 9'9" Y, or the 9'5" M.

I've looked at a few boards in the shops, and have seen a couple of noseriders with the pronounced flip in the tail, as well as others that were very flat. Thinking of a few Tudor 'Kook Boxes' that I saw recently in NH, very flat rocker and very wide board including the nose, which was maybe 19" wide.

 

I could always follow Bills lead, and I guess what was my initial intuition, and just shape it how I felt I should using what I have. Then just see how it goes.

 

I don't consider myself an expert, and I'm sure there are many other ways to do it, but here’s how I shape rocker for a 9-6 noserider:

 

 It starts with the blank. I order a US Blanks 10’2”B. (the “New Green” density is excellent for noseriders) This blank’s “Natural” rocker is 4-11/16” NR and 3-11/16” TR…just the opposite of what I’m looking for. I’m shooting for 4-1/4”NR and 4-1/2” TR, with most of the NR in last 12” or so (just as JP points out), and most of the TR in the last 24”-18” or so. I order the blank with the rocker adjusted “-1N” (decrease nose rocker at tip by 1” starting from center) and “+1/2T18” (add ½” to the tail rocker starting at a point 18” from the tail). Remember that when adjusting rocker you need to increase stringer thickness accordingly to prevent “snap-back” or the tendency of the foam to return to its natural, molded-in, rocker. (This is also a good opportunity to specify glue color, which is a nice “detail” to add with basswood stringers) The blank I start shaping is then about 10’2” tip-to-tip, measured on deck, with 3-11/16”NR and 4-5/16”TR (Approx of course. This glue-up work is done by hand at the blank factory, so there will be some variation, which you take into account as you shape.)

 

Next, I cut about 1”-2” off the tail length to clean up the end. I flip the blank over, deck-side up and measure 9’6-1/4” from the tail to the nose and place a cut mark here on the nose. I draw a line at this mark across the deck and perpendicular to the stringer. Then I cut on the line, holding the saw perpendicular to the floor (some cut at an angle). I cut most of length from the nose because it will help to keep the rocker curve in the front half of the board flat until I flip it in the last 12” or so. After cutting, the nose tip will be 1-1/2” thick, which gives me plenty of adjustment room.

 

Now my blank has been reduced from 10’1” in length to just a little over 9’6” and has the approximate rocker curve I desire. I flip the blank over, bottom-side up, and re-measure the NR and TR on the bottom. By cutting off the ends of the blank, I have reduced the original rocker at both ends. I record this somewhere for later reference. This is an important step because these measurements tell me how far off my existing end-point rockers are from my target. I then skin the blank and rough-shape the bottom. As I plane foam from the bottom I must keep in mind the targeted thickness and the final rocker numbers, all the while trying to maintain the existing bottom curve and create a nice foil. (I personally check and re-check rocker as I go, while more experienced shapers can just eye-ball it.) As I plane the bottom, I try to follow the existing curve, keeping the curve gentle (not flat) from the center to about 12” from nose and about 18” from tail. At these points, give or take a few inches depending upon the how the bottom curve looks and where it breaks from what I want (thanks JP), I accelerate the curve until it meets my targeted rocker numbers. As JP stated above, the nose concave will counter the accelerated curve in the nose by flattening rocker along the stringer, minimizing water “push”. I personally leave ¼” less than the desired rocker in the tail to allow for adding V, which I do next. (I invariably gain ¼” tail rocker while smoothing out the V and bringing it to flat in the last 3” or so of the tail). Final rocker numbers aren’t as important as the overall arc of the curve, with a more “relaxed” curve in the front 2/3 and a more accelerated curve in the last 1/3. “Remember no abrupt changes in direction or flat spots. You want a smooth continuous curve throughout” (Can you tell I’ve memorized JPs video?)

 

 

What you should end up with is enough curve in the tail to (1) act as a lever to lift the rail line of this long surfboard out of the water so it can turn, and (2) to create downward suction on the tail to counteract your weight when on the nose. And, just enough curve in the nose to keep from pearling on takeoff, but flat enough to maximize glide.

Thanks for the in depth run through of shaping out the US blank, NMT.  I am still pondering the purchase of PU blanks. I got a quote from Fiberglasssupply, where I usually get my materials, and it would cost 250$ to have a box of blanks shipped to me. !!  I can get enough EPS to make about 11-12 blanks for that price.  I’ll have to try one of the east coast places that sell blanks … EZ  maybe, and see how much of a difference it is.

Here is a pic I got of my existing LB/s rocker.  To my eye the curve doesn’t look as pronounced as it does in the print out from the AKU Shaper App. Been playing around with rocker sin the app, deciding if I will make new templates or go with what I have.    I have 2 people that want boards right now, so I have a few weeks to plan it out.

Rocker