One last thing about FISH: If they are so great, why did they fade away?

General Discussion
1

I can understand how longboarding took a break in the seventies and early eighties. Shortboarding was drawing new lines, and everyone was re-stoked.

And I can understand why the paper thin, potatochip style board of the early nineties didn’t last: It wasn’t effective for anyone except advanced surfers in hollow waves.

But why did the fish leave.

People have been raving about fish since their comeback a couple years ago, but I still wonder why I never saw them.

In fact, come to think of it, I don’t think I EVER saw anyone ride one. But I hear a lot about them.

Also, can anyone direct me to video footage of a fish?

Thanks, and I’ll be sure not to post about fish for a while. You know what they say. Guests and fish go bad after three days.

2

I think that the fish came about at a time when there was soooo much going on in surfboard design that it just fell to the wayside for something new not maybe not better but new.

Here is some footage from J-Bay and T. Campbells new film Sprout is supposed to have some sick fish footage in it. You can also look at Litmus and Searching for Tom Curren and Way of Life has Tim Stamps riding his.

http://www.surfingthemag.com/av/chrdsjby/

3

check out the trailer to Sprout

http://www.trimyourlifeaway.com/index2.html

4

That’s great footage. I’ve also been wanting to see some fish footage because I’ve heard so much about them as well. They look fast…just like everyone says. Does anybody have any idea as to what size boards the guys in that clip are riding?

5

That is, approximate board lengths from the first clip, but both clips are cool.

6

These quotes are thanks to dubstar who also posts here.

Re: [JohnMellor] [JohnMellor] Dan Malloy @ J Bay [In reply to]

Quote | Reply

With regards to Dan’s boards… He and a few friends brought a large quiver of “alternative” surfcraft down to J Bay. He had Pavel quads, Skip twins, and Christenson twins. Don’t let the logos sway you – these were the 3 craftsmen involved. The maroon board Slater is on is an old Skip twin (check the Gamboa profile in Longboard Magazine to see the same stick). I can’t remember who shaped the yellow keeled twin that Slater is carrying up the point (I think it is a Skip). The little white board is a 5’5" Pavel twin. The yellow board Dan is riding is a 5’10" Pavel Quad. Of all the boards Dan rode, the yellow Pavel quad was his favorite – he said it just suited his style the best and felt good under his feet.

The Pavel 5’10" quad, which was Dan’s favorite, has the Gephardt marine ply fins. Skip twins of course had the marine ply keel fins. The 5’5" Pavel (the white board) belongs to a friend of Dan’s and has FCS (!) plugs – Dan’s friend had the fins custom made by a mate from Oz, and they were fiberglass fins – twin keel with the option (FCS plugs) to go quad if he so desired.

All boards seemed to go exceptionally well, and Dan remarked at how much fun he was having, how little he had to work to generate speed as compared to his thrusters.

7

I started surfing around the time the Dyno rocket fish was being shaped. It was a great board. But there were so many changes going on. Remember when the “stinger” showed up? They looked so cool. And when you were a kid, cool was what you wanted. Then came the round pin twin, and the thruster. You see, alot of what we do is driven by fads. But I think we have come to the point where people are riding what they like, not what’s in fashion. Swaylocks has connected people to start thinking on there own and riding what works for them.

SteveA

8
Quote:

I started surfing around the time the Dyno rocket fish was being shaped. It was a great board. But there were so many changes going on. Remember when the “stinger” showed up? They looked so cool. And when you were a kid, cool was what you wanted. Then came the round pin twin, and the thruster. You see, alot of what we do is driven by fads. But I think we have come to the point where people are riding what they like, not what’s in fashion. Swaylocks has connected people to start thinking on there own and riding what works for them.

SteveA

Great post and I agree, ride what works for you and what works for you may not be what works for Kelly/Andy/Joel/surfersurfingmag surfstar rides.

9

I agree with that too. I was just wondering what board lengths they’re on. Can’t a guy wonder?

10

… around here It’s not uncommon to see 5 or 6 real fishes in the lineup these days. here’s some photos and clips of some Kane Garden fish in action. http://www.kanegarden.com/news_events/

11

Why did the Fish fade away???

As the Surf Historian of Bakersfield, California

and the City from which the term ‘Cow-abunga’

came from I can probably elucidate some points relating to this:

The Twin Fin Fish was the First Successful Multifin Design.

It was implemented first as a kneeboard around the very early

70’s in San Diego. Although others had designed and implemented

twin fins, all previous attempts were fatally flawed as good boards.

It was the Combination of combining the Fish Tail with the Twin

Fin that found complete success added with further design enhancements. Its influence grew quickly, plateaued, then

gained further prominence with Mark Richards advances to the

Standup Design through the early 80’s and his march on consequetive world titles.

Although the Twin Fin Fish was a succesful board it had limitations.

For one it was not a big wave board, and in Hawaii, all the pro’s

had to switch off a twin fin when the waves got bigger to a single

fin. This made contest surfing very awkward as it wasnt easy quickly switching between these two designs.

One of the many things that was attempted to the Twin Fin

fish to extend its upper range of waves, was to put ruffled channels

on the bottom which was essentially a way of making the board

stiffer, but certainly not succesful in bigger waves.

Further, even though many liked and loved the twin fin, others

were not so well pleased. Many Professional Surfers found they

could not surf effectively against Mark Richards on their single fins

yet couldnt effectively surf twin fins themselves. Many complained

that the Twin Fin wouldnt always hold effectively on Backside turns

and hence was problematic to surf backside. Others just had their

hearts, minds and styles intertwined to the Single Fin and found

any adjustment to the Twin very awkward and difficult.

Then along came the Simon Anderson Thruster. It was a perfect

board in that it was a design that could surf small waves and work

equally well in Big Waves. No longer did surfers have to switch between Singles and Twins. Further it really solved some of the

problems associated with the Twin Fin. It was an excellent backside

board. You could push your backside turns as hard as you wanted

and these held and would not slide. In addition, One of the Thrusters great aspects was its versatility to be both a small

wave board and the same board could be pushed into larger

waves than the Twin Fin Fish could handle. Moreover, the Thruster

combined the best of both worlds as it could push turns through

a small arc just as well as the Twin could, but it would hold,

and it surfed similar to a Twin , yet the Die-Hard Single Fin crowd

felt at ease and could relate to the board as easily as could

the Twin Finned Surfers. The Thruster had the turning aspects

of the Twin full-on, yet felt similar to a single in some respects.

The impact was so great that within 3-5 years after its initial impact approximately80% of the Surfers had converted to the Thruster , to include Mark Richards.

So why did the Twin Fin essentially dissapear if it was such

a good board. Well it essentially got displaced by a superior design

that could handle small and large surf equally well. Further,

although the Twin Fin Fish was a great design in its element,

the actual ‘Twin Fin Fish’ design didnt quite make inroads to

all Surf Destinations across the planet. Australia , for one,

had missed the initial impact of the Twin Fin Fish, but had experienced the impact of the Mark Ricards Twin Fin and the

two design are very different. The Twin Fin Fish is an outstanding

small wave design that will generate tons of speed and do dramatic

turns. The Mark Richards design is a very good modernistic adaptation of this design, but sleeker and more maneuverable

with accomodations that made it more of a versatile board but perhaps lacking some of the blood curdling hold and speed of the original twin fin fish. For Australians, they would be reaching back

to the MR twin which, in some respects, may be regarded as a

Thruster-Lite. However, the Original Twin Fin Fish was its own

unique surfing animal and an ageless small wave design.

Your Mileage May Vary.

12

Your from fish land…some of the best, original builders are in San Diego…Go for it Fairmont! Toby, Mr. Skip; what else is there to say?

I heard Brom laughing at this thread. He said there is one w/ your name on it. All’s you’ve got to do is drive 4 hours. Oh, and bring $600.00. Good luck! Fish are all about fun.

13

http://stream.12milesout.net/psg/gone_fishing2.wmv

14

Anybody else have a hard time “fishing” in rough surf? here in jersey its rarely very clean and sometimes the fish just doesn’t handle the weird ledgy, choppy surf very we’ll. I have a feeling this maybe a reason why it faded out…or it could be that I just suck:)

Later

Brent

15

For the same reasons it vill fade again!

Danger + opportunity = Crisis.Herb

16

they have their place in some regions,just like all boards.and as was said by the skeg master a few days ago,it(or they)can make all the diff in a board.why is there a return to single fins or at least an adj. center box.

17

I think you said it right, wierd ledgy choppy surf is where

sometimes a fish would need to be pumped once or twice

to bring it alive or it was essentially dead in the water. Sometimes this kind of manuevering was kind of anti-ethical to the

‘natural flow’ a different design would do through this kind

of touchy section.

Quote:

Anybody else have a hard time “fishing” in rough surf? here in jersey its rarely very clean and sometimes the fish just doesn’t handle the weird ledgy, choppy surf very we’ll. I have a feeling this maybe a reason why it faded out…or it could be that I just suck:)

Later

Brent

18

I’ve made plenty of twin fins in the years around '69-70, all with squash or diamond tails.

I never saw the need for swallow tails on any board, as I’d want the least amount of surface area in the tail when I’m about to bank a bottom turn. The fish has the most.

Spinout…you can add trailer, you can use bigger side fins, you can soften the bottom and rails.

Plus, when riding a 5’6" board, why would you want to lessen the area in the tail?

Just me, of course. If you like riding fish’s, you have my blessing!

Me, small waves, ride a small wave board.

4-7’ point surf, ride what you want.

Big waves, ride what you think can hold in well on steep walls.

19

Great topic, and info. I’ve recently been riding some fishy’s as well. A Merrick, and a sunset shaped by BF at surfride. The CI was a 6’2" and way to thick for me, so not really a fair test. The sunset is a 5’10". Both boards have single foiled fins, set slightly more forward, with a more stood-up template. These boards have several features that make them not so “retro”. I understand and fully respect the traditional fish design, and it’s place in history. After riding both types of boards, i went with the modernized version because it just felt more “free” on the wave face. I could put it where I wanted, when I wanted. I consider myself an above average surfer, with 25 years in the water. I ride tons of different boards, but my quest always remains the same: I want to go as fast as possible, with minimal drag, and as much control as i can get. I want to do manuevers with power and speed. What i’ve found with the fish is super skateability with cool unexpected bursts of speed. Also the fact that the board is so small, you can really leverage it around at will!

   For myself, their application is waist to head high lined up (preferably) point surf. They never seemed to handle chop or bumps well as I felt that they lost their "bite" on the face due to the width. They don't seem to like wind either.  The flat sided fins felt as though you could do controlled drift-slide bottom turns and go straight up into the lip at will. They also seemed to accelerate through cutbacks like a bar of soap in bathtub. Rode a Larry Mabile twinzer fish that felt the same way on cutties. Slippery but fast!! You can really feel that there is no center fin there. I was suprised at how much more drag I felt when I jumped back on the thruster. More control for sure, but more drag as well. You definately need to add a bit of body english when riding any fish I think. The traditional fish with stovepiped fins parrallel to the stringer, with no cant just didn't give me either of those benefits. They went fast, but fought me a little on turns. I felt their application(IMHO) was more like knee to chest high, very lined up waves where your just trying to burn across the face.

Went ahead and ordered a 6’0" x 21 x 2 and 3/4 (i’m 185lbs) Flat sided fins set @ 7in. from tail, 1 inch from rails, angled in 1/4 towards stringer, set at 6 degrees. I’ll post up a pic when it’s done with some feedback!!

20

the beauty of the design is that it’s a wide surface to get speed then when placed in a rail burying turn the board is a pintail with either a keel fin or two fins(either combo on rail) the coming out of all that bite the board is back on all that area(SPEEEED!!) It’s nearly impossible to spin out a fish that is made and surfed correctly.