I heard a long-long time ago that if you over-shape a blank, you will get down to softer foam (Clark), causing the board to pressure dent incredibly easy no matter what the glass job. This came from a shaper I was working for at the time. Is this in fact true? I recently glassed a board for a new customer, his very first shape. He took an old longboard, stripped it and re-shaped it down to a 5’ something…really small board thin board. I warned him that he probably shaped the thing down to softer foam. I glassed the thing with a 4x6 epoxy deck and a 6 bottom, and no, I did not over sand the thing. He has ridden it three times and the thing is pressure dented to death. Now he seems a bit put off and thinks there is something wrong with the glass job. I remember one other time this happening, also with a newbie shaper, back when I was a grom glasser, and I was told that they probably overshaped the blank. Is this in fact true? I’m a glasser, my knowledge of foam integrity falls short of you seasoned shapers out there. Hopefully, I gave the customer the correct answer and can point him to this post and the responses.
Having re-shaped several old boards in my youth and made the mistake of over shaping a few thru the years; I would say your explanation/assumption is correct. Obviously your “newbie” client isn’t familiar with your resume, education and your reputation as a glasser or he would know better.
It’s certainly true in Clarks case. I tried five Clark firsts and they get real soft, real quick. This is not the case with some other blank manufacturers that I have tried and some are quite consistent in firmness throughout the thickness of the blank. But Clark? Just looking at one of those things would count as over shaping in my (very limited) experience with them.
Thanks for the help! I must say that regardless of what I have on my resume, I still don’t know a heck of a lot about the blanks and shaping. I know that Walker blanks are the same density throughout and that Clark’s are soft and chewy in the center, only from heresay. Makes me wonder why Clark’s were so popular? Yes, the Newbie payed for a strong Epoxy glass job and now, I am loosing sleep because the board isn’t all he had hoped and dreamed. I do feel better knowing that I am probably not at fault, but I still feel really bad for the guy. I suppose he can chock it all up to the learning curve and growing pains like we all had to go through. It is what it is I guess. I still just hate those few calls when customers are bummed.
I’ve heard, and my experience would indicate it to be true, that light density (1 - 1.5 lb/cu ft) EPS is more compatible with the flex factor you might get with epoxy. I.E. you can thumb dent it and it springs back. For some reason the heavier density (2 lb+) EPS foams seem to remain dented as do polyurethane surfboard foams. Clark Foam is soft in the core - more so on a recycled blank which has been shaped even deeper… who knows how deep the original shape went?
I hear you on the calls etc. Maybe you can give him something extra the next time. Extra layer of cloth, S-cloth, a tint or something. In today’s ecconomy we can’t afford to lose customers, even newbies. Clarks were popular because there was less foam to mow to get down to the desired thickness, shape etc. ie. so called “close tolerance”. They also had great distribuion and were easily accessed.
The worrying thing is the potential damage to one’s reputation that one newbie and probably one off “shaper” could do. Hopefully you manage to see him and show him the replies on this thread before he goes around all of his mates showing them what a crap job you did of his board.
Maybe next time, try veneering the deck. Looks cool and might get you better dent resistance.
NJ:
Some Guy brings a recylced blank to be glassed and you think he’s going to spend the money to let you veneer his Frankenstein?
I warned him that he probably shaped the thing down to softer foam. I glassed the thing with a 4x6 epoxy deck and a 6 bottom, and no, I did not over sand the thing. He has ridden it three times and the thing is pressure dented to death. Now he seems a bit put off and thinks there is something wrong with the glass job. I remember one other time this happening, also with a newbie shaper, back when I was a grom glasser, and I was told that they probably overshaped the blank. Is this in fact true? I’m a glasser, my knowledge of foam integrity falls short of you seasoned shapers out there. Hopefully, I gave the customer the correct answer and can point him to this post and the responses.
Leslie:
You did the right thing by forewarning him of the softer foam. If you used the same glassing schedule on a fresh blank it would be plenty strong. To have the responses posted on swaylocks for your customer to read is a great Ideal. Now your customer will gain the necessary “Know How” to make better boards without blaming someone else for his mistake!
It’s probably going to have othr issues…this bastard surfblank thing. Having such an unbalanced glassing schedule will lead to the bottom side buckling. Man a 6/6 top with a 4oz stomp, with a 6/4 bottom should have been enough. You did your part on trying to make it bullet proof…And epoxy over PU isn’t my first choice of coatings.
Well… the extra bucks spent might mean a board he can actually ride more than three times. I’d tell him try the veneer thing. It’s that, or just hand me the money he spent on cloth, resin, buckets, brushes, etc. instead of throwing it away on a disposable board.
Is there a general rule against cutting down boards and re-shaping? I thought that was how lots of experimentation was done during the “shortboard revolution.” I stumbled upon this thread, having just peeled the glass off an old beater Chinese hunkajunk. It was a 9’0" log that I used for a loaner/knockaround/deathrace2000 board and had been collecting dust for a few years when I decided to put it to some better use. I cut off the tail just above the sidebites and it yielded a nice, clean hunk of foam, just over 3" thick and 22 inches wide. Foam still seems pretty solid.
I realize this is slightly off topic from Leslie’s question, but I’m glassing the board myself, so any advice would be appreciated so I can avoid any potential pitfalls. I don’t plan on taking much foam off (the rocker profile is pretty close to what I want, surprisingly) except at the rails. Based on the above, maybe a 2x6oz deck with a patch? Cheers.
Looking forward to using the planer today, it’s raining and windy in the islands. Aloha.
Raining and windy, you say? Freezing and windy where I am. About 13 degrees when I woke up this morning. Enjoy the wind and rain and time in your workshop. Too cold in mine. It’ll be a while before I get that thing shaped.
The softer cores off the Clarks was actually a good thing. Ik makes your board lighter for the same strength if you do not overshape it. So there is a need for close tolerance blanks. It’s like the compsands, a light core with a heavy skin makes a lighter board (and stronger if the skin is denser than the reference blank).