How does plywood float?
Hey Twig-- plywood barely floats itself–it will not provide much float for you–however, I found that if I just held it out in front of me with my arms and legs extended and kicked a little bit-that provided enough lift to keep on the surface without too much effort. flojo
The blue board was made by Roger Wayland, as were the various experimental plywood shapes sealed with a black coating. One of the links even has Roger’s basic construction details for anybody who wants to have at it. http://http://vagabondsurf.com/WaylandRevisited.html
Let’s try this url… http://www.vagabondsurf.com/WaylandRevisited.html
Hi Flojo - Dale and everyone… I have one of Paul Lindberg’s Paipo’s. Dives like a submarine! Flys like a rocket… Flojo, if you enjoy your plywood paipo - you’ll love these. I think the link is www.paipo.com I have a Dextra Popout. The “Sea King” model. 4’7" (55"), and someone shaved down the fin so it is now this sharp cutaway…with a leash hole in it. Tail corners and nose are down to the foam, has a few delam pockets on the bottom and deck, but over all, it’s OK. I may just gaffer tape the nose/tail sections up and take it out for a spin or two - then - let it dry out and clean it up -fix what i can. It has already turned dark brown - the foam - under the whole deck where it doesn’t have the colour mats on it (it’s this burnt orange colour, with stripes on the deck - solid colour on the bottom). I can probably find a testor model paint in about the right colour. The nose has (a few inch long ) black tip. So, that’s in the mull over fix it - test it bin. Has a concave bottom, and is rather thick… I picked up a 5’ leash for it, ultra light one - I may wear it on my wrist. Too much drag and less control if attached to my leg. could get in the way of kicking, too. Anyone have thoughts on leashes on foam/glass bellyboards? Paipo’s typically pop up and hang around the scene of the wipe-out and dive and slice through waves really well - so - having a runaway board is not likely, and since they don’t go very far when they do - maybe a leash could be dangerous with a paipo. Now. I want to have a custom Bellyboard made…but, I am still toying with different designs and ideas, and, am completely thrilled I found this thread! Has anyone seen the UFO? It’s a light metal alloy 'board" that has a sort of channeled out bottom and more of a ridge than a fin?? I saw some video’s of it on Surfline…anyway, that might be a way to go for a bottom and fin design for a bellyboard. It would be great to line up and test…ones with the convex/thin rail/paipo/greenough/spoon type of design verses the concave bottom/thick tail/thick rail Dextra/Jack’s type…and then - toss in some twin fin fishes vs. single fin and cutaway vs short UFO fin w/channels… I am starting to to develop this sort of thick carbon fiber spoon with channels and a center ‘ridge’ …maybe 2 -3" high and 7" long down the bottom. One of the problems with bellyboards is the fins hitting you in the legs…and I think with channels and a center ridge, I would get the flo dynamics and some stability… Whatd’ya think? What are people filling carbon fiber boards with? What has the most floation of all the fillers? Best bodyboard I own is a “Industry” Kaino X-Man. 42". Bat tail w/ channels. Fastest bodyboard I have ever been on - the thing simply rips! I grew up in Manhattan Beach in the 60’s. Was friends with and went to school with Jacob’s and Weber’s kids and Bing lived across the alley from me - our garages faced each others (except his was the 2nd house down and mine the 3rd) - and I used to see him toiling away, shaping boards, in there. I had a bellyboard, with a very cool multi-coloured acid wash bottom - tear drop shaped - with a very thick tail - rail - maybe 3" thick. One of a kind. In the late 60’s, but never tried a Bonzer. Anyone here tried one??? I think we need a west coast paipo/bellyboard/kneeboard club… Cheers Birdie
I made a typo on the last post - I meant Jeff “Doc” Lausch’s USO (Unidentified Surfing Object) - Thinking a bellyboard version, w/wider rounded spooned nose, and, abit thicker…maybe UVA on the deck. I’ll post links so you can see the fin/tail/channel arrangement. Anyone own one of these??? Cheers Birdie http://www.surfline.com/video/vids/2002/aug/jsps/doc2_qt.cfm
Steiny wrote “and what about fast food trays? I use to read trayer and traying but now that i’m older I only read Trayer’s Journal” This was popular when I was very young and surfed Waikiki walls. Everyone would go to Jack in the box across the street and get their “equipment” after getting a burger. Easy to use but only slightly better than bodysurfing.
Ahoy, here’s a couple of bellyfish I had made for me back in the nineties. This one is still mm favorite http://members.cox.net/seacaver/butterfly.htm Note: the butterfly tail doesn’t have the same continuous arc of the fish tail. and here’s one that was too floaty for me. I sold it about a year ago, and I hear it’s been giving some good thrill rides http://members.cox.net/seacaver/skeletor.htm I might be fun to converge somewhere in California and ride eachothers boards. I’ve been thinking about making a plywood bellyfish with no fins. Anybody try that yet? -Larry OB
okay I didn’t make the links active… http://members.cox.net/seacaver/skeletor.htm
Well that wasn’t quite what I intended. Skeletor came with the butterly address. http://members.cox.net/seacaver/butterfly.htm
Ahoy, I also made a diamond tail bellyboard back in about '93 by reshaping a badly damaged Romanofsky kneeboard. Shortened it and made it one inch at the thickest. Great for diving under whitewater. Played around with minimal fin. Started with three fins about the size of my thumb. Cut them in half. And then removed the center fin. I don’t currently have a deck photo. Near the the nose I moto-tooled a couple of small ovals for my thumbs to press into when I’m diving under a wave or flying blind up through the lip. No leash for me. I like to be able to throw the board away from me in some situations. Ya, ya…the doily design kind of gives away my age. -Larry OB http://members.cox.net/seacaver/mab01.jpg
I’m game for meeting up and trying each others boards. The trick may be be finding the right spot, right swell…and everyone being able to get there. I am in LA…and others are up around Santa Cruz…are you in San Diego? County Line is fun, but maybe we should get a small boat or two, pile them up with all the bellies and paipos, and…go to the ranch. I have a black 30x40 Hawaii Paipo Design - Paipo, 55" (4’7") Dextra “Sea King” with a cutaway fin, Industry “Kainoa” X-Man bat tail, BSD 42 w/round rails, and a 44" Toobs bomber. How’d the small fins work out? I’ve seen all your boards except the reshaped kneeboard. Excellent! Carl Pope has this vaccume/balloon mold shaping system going for carbon fiber boards. It may be the ticket for a design along the the lines of the U.S.O board or any other that otherwise would require super thick blanks…or difficult to shape forms. Cheers Birdie http://www.surfline.com/video/vids/2002/aug/jsps/doc2_qt.cfm
How do those things surf without fins? Do you drag your feet/legs to hold in? Seems like they`d always be spinning out.
Ahoy, I’ll write more about bellyboards next weekend when I get back in town. One of my thougts was to have some sort of club for people that ride alternative prone craft. One of the names I came up with was the League of Lamaroos. We could get together at least once a year for a bellyboard/paipo palooza. Preferably at a time when Rod Rogers could visit us from the East coast. Later, Larry OB http://members.cox.net/seacaver/mab01.jpg
Thats a good question. On one extreme theres flat thin slabs of finless plywood and on the other theres those fat, round-railed finless surf mats. Neither of those make any sense at all to me- I mean how well can they surf? I guess thats the same reason why in olden times surfers used to drag their feet to turn?
Well, I think it is because the plywood (and Paul Lindberg’s fiberglass/resin Paipos) are so thin - and thus have such an edge, that the rail keeps you in the wave face. I don’t know about anyone else, but I need a wave face at least 4’ to make the best use of my Paipo. I have the 30"x40" XL. The mats are another story, but from my 60’s canvas mat (the blue ones) experiences (when I was about 8, I learned to NEVER make them too tight as besides turning blue and passing out in the sand trying to inflate them too much…you’d get bucked right off them on waves…oh…what a scream that was…I’d go bam! bouncing along and right off!!) I took a bunch of air out of them after that, but not so much to where they’d bend over on you - another way to get chucked into space)…I hit my chin and got rope burns on my hands before I mastered the mats…but once I got it down - it was like flying on a cloud! Anyway…from my experience, I think surf mats, hydroplane, basically, and since they are harder with more air - you bounce/skip on them and with not enough air, you can have the front fold under on you (another reason to bend your arms over the sides of them) - and you steer with your legs/fins and arms and lean your body… So, right No edge/rail sinking in…and the amount of air seems to be the predominate issue when it comes to having control over them. I’ll tell you, if you have too much air… you might as well wear your cowboy hat out there. I am sure Dale will pop in with the awesome answer. I can only give you the 8 year old grom’s memory answer. Getting one, or more, of Dale’s Mats is on my list of things to definitely do. I want one for surfing and one for photography. Cheers Birdie http://www.surfline.com/video/vids/2002/aug/jsps/doc2_qt.cfm
Where ever we wind up having it, I would like to suggest a nice point break and when we can get 4 - 7 foot faces…maybe more towards 4’ as some of the craft may be 30 years or older… It may be possible to reserve Leo Carrillo for a day…no longboarders allowed! From the rock, it’s a fabulous wave for prone or knee anybody… We should try to get a place that we can reserve AND where it is normally really hard or impossible (surfrider) for anyone to use anything other than a log. Of course, Surfrider is so polluted and crowded, , maybe we should skip trying for that…but still…you see what I mean about making a day of it - somewhere that we normally have a harder time getting waves. But, lets pass on Humboldt or any place too sharky. I don’t mind baby GW’s in Southern California, but the teenagers and adults up north are known for making mistakes from time to time. If we use a park, like Leo, reservations have to be made as far in advance as possible. Think about it and then, bump the thread when you get back! Cheers Birdie
Why not use a body board instead? Aren`t they an advancement over paipos and mats?
Thanks Birdie. Regarding paipos, its surprising what a flat, thin, finless piece of plywood can accomplish on a wave! Inexpensive simplicity, minimal buoyancy, nearly pure dynamic lift. Control is achieved mainly via edges/penetration of the rail line. Eventually one might experiment with a bottom shell of tuned flex glass/resin laminate (variable rocker/torque), add a deck which provides variable buoyancy... now youve significantly increased your paipos sensitivity and operating range, especially in flatter, bumpy, and/or smaller conditions. Attaching shallow flexible runners, to grip and channel the waters flow, in various locations along the bottoms rails, reveals new ways to higher levels of speed and control, and more sensations... About surf mats... imagine something that can literally change its own contours and buoyancy distribution in response to the curves and texture of any wave. Imagine having rails that quickly morph themselves from 50/50 round to thin, tucked egg and everything in between, a variable thickness flow... deck and running surfaces reacting independently, restraining an active layer of human breath. A surf mats broad contact area on the wave face provides an extremely smooth roll/transition between trimming and carving (even over chop), yet with minimal surface penetration, similar in function to a radial tire when cornering. Both paipos and surf mats benefit from their riders’ use of swim fins and legs as a means of above-water counterbalance. But dragging anything for steering or control is rarely necessary. Finless surfing is all about balance… the subtle, sensual interplay between speed and control.
Bill Spence – Tuesday, 14 October 2003, at 8:53 a.m. Why not use a body board instead? Aren`t they an advancement over paipos and mats? Different tools for different functions. For speed and in-water “flight” the paipos and mats are great - with proper waves. For manuevering into places and configurations which standup surfing has yet to significantly penetrate, hard to beat a bodyboard. You can have a blast on a bodyboard in waves the other equipment is ill-suited for, and conversely find the bodyboard lacking on waves which most suit the paipo or mat. Bodyboards were an improvement over mats and paipos when they were first invented from comfort, general performance and safety viewpoints, and durability in regard to mats of the time. Much more cost effective for rentals. Another cool thing about bodyboards, mats, and paipos: you can lock one of each in the trunk of your car, and all three together cost less than one premium priced standup surfboard. For the price of your next board you could quadruple your surfing experience - quintuple it if you bodysurf.