I honestly don’t care one way or the other. The writing has been on the wall for some time. There are amazingly talented shapers who have gone the Cobra/Boardworks outsourced molded route as a sideline if nothing else.
Having read one of DP’s derisive rants against molded plastic kayaks and pop out surfboards in which he compares them to pool toys, I have to admit I had a chuckle over this. I’m sure they’re state of the art SUP designs and that he can ride 'em like nobody’s business but…
I rarely post on here, mostly I just stop in and read for info, but this is silly.
Have you talked to Dave about this?
If you read his whole “derisive rant”, you’d know that he states there is one place mass produced boards have a place in the market. This is with long board type boards for surfers at the start of their learning curve. There are probably only a handful of people in the world that are proficient at surfing SUP boards. So it would seem almost everyone falls into this category.
If you don’t care, why make the post? Ah…because it’s safe here on the internet and Dave will probably never see, or care to pay attention to your jab. I’m sure I’ll get flamed right off this forum for this post, but what the hell, it needed to be said.
I think a lot more people are accepting pop-outs than when Dave wrote that several years ago and everyone has the right to change their mind, but when I saw his boards on that website I have to admit I was surprised. I thought Dave would never be involved with pop-outs. I am on this site because I enjoy shaping my own boards, but my favorite small wave board is a CI tuflite flyer. I for one am glad to see anyone have an open mind, even someone who does not have a reputation for having one.
If you don’t care, why make the post? Ah…because it’s safe here on the internet and Dave will probably never see, or care to pay attention to your jab.
Why so confrontational jc? Sounds like you’re trying to scare John off the peak at your local break. There are no waves here.
lol, that’s hilarioius. I guess when he demounted he realized he was riding a pony.
My apologies for sounding like I’m flying off the handle. I just find it interesting how everyone seems to have an intimate knowledge of what Dave is thinking. All of a sudden people are the opinion police or something.
I know Dave and talk with him about each board that he shapes for me. I’ve been lucky enough to hang out with him and hear his opinions on several subjects involving surfing, not just pop outs. This is not bragging, I am simply fortunate to ride boards from a shaper of his caliber and to get to pick his brain on occasion. One thing I’ve observed is that even though he has been shaping and surfing for years, he is still pumped about every advancement in board making and shaping. The last thing he seems to concern himself with is what everyone thinks about him or what other shapers are doing.
One has to wonder out loud if everyone that talks so much about Dave and seems to know so much about him, actually speaks or communicates with him.
This is strange to be writing about him on here, so I’ll stop. Just had to put in my 2 cents, or maybe it was more like 4 or 5…
The last thing I want to do is chase anyone off a peak, what ever that means. Not sure I’m familiar with this bahavior.
Saw the C4 crew at the Noosa Festival of Surfing this year and I briefly pondered the irony of Dave’s involvement with GSI being the major sponsor and Dave’s well published views via the " Manifesto ".
But two points I’d like to make.
The manifesto view is dated and Dave has obviously considered other options.
Whatever the craft the C4 guys rode they were awe inspiring and they totally stoked out the crowd all week with their displays of skill and the Aloha spirit.
Mooneemick
One thing I’ve observed is that even though he has been shaping and surfing for years, he is still pumped about every advancement in board making and shaping. The last thing he seems to concern himself with is what everyone thinks about him or what other shapers are doing.
Good points, my take is that this goes for a lot of the people of this caliber. They keep moving along, advancing their craft, and use what tools are most important to them. The guys I know that are in this class aren’t bothered what other’s think, more so, thinking on ideas and evolving. Imagine facing 100 of those high volume sup’s repetitively and what work that is. If you can’t imagine, try doing 20 and report back. The machine or a well molded board is a valued tool for advancement.
Thanks for posting!
I too find it interesting, we are all free to change our minds, and I find it refreshing too see people can change there minds. I think that if certain individuals in the government had the humility to change there minds we would be as bad off today…National Debt speaking. It take a strong man to change his mind for the better, even if it means loosing face. But with that said, Cyberspace is also a place to call a spade, a spade. Dave P’s name would have never come up in our little deminted world if someone didn’t smell something strange. I would have never know about this unless it was posted.
I’m also glad to know that Dave P dosen’t give a rats ass about Swaylock’s and has probably ever heard about Swaylock’s.(just speculating from your discription) I also know there are more people that have never heard of Swaylocks than have, and that’s good too.
I like my Cyberbuddies, even if we can’t surf…hey which way do the fins go? up or down? Does the zipper go in the front?
-Jay
I just find it interesting how everyone seems to have an intimate knowledge of what Dave is thinking.
We know what he thought because he wrote it… Thats cool and fine if he changes his mind, but it just goes to show that one will always have to step down from that soap box theyre preaching on.
Although I see where your coming from, IMO, SUP does not fall into the same category of surfing. While the majority of the surfboard industry is still gonna go with the standard poly, “new technologies” mean more for the SUP guys and paddleboarders. Those things are more boats than they are surfboards.
I know Surftach is now producing several Joe Bark paddleboards in the (? $1000-$1500 ?) range. How significantly this will affect the guys paddleboard industry, i don’t know. How many guys are making a living off shaping paddleboards? Googling it, I really only see one: Joe Bark (I really don’t know what i’m talking about here, so please don’t throw me to the wolves…)
Also found it funny a few issues back of surfer magazine, the Parmenter article where he’s all buddy-buddy with Wayne Lynch.
my 1.5cts? SUPboards are the new “windsurfer”, bringing (water) sport closer to the masses.
Hi jc9_0…
No big deal. Like I said, I just got a chuckle out of it.
Maybe I should explain why I even mentioned it…
In his “Manifesto”, which I have read in entirety, DP took jabs at a couple of folks for whom I have much respect. As an example, Yater and Munoz were onboard with Surftech nearly from the beginning and in the Manifesto were basically targeted as washed up has beens who have brought nothing to the table in decades.
You mention that DP wrote that the mass produced boards might be a good option for someone at the start of the learning curve. I think it went beyond that to the point of derision, but perhaps that is simply my take. In actual practice, I see any number of very good/advanced surfers who enjoy their mass produced boards very much and surf them quite well. Each to his own I guess.
The overall tone of the Manifesto actually seemed pretty clear to me but to put things in better overall context , I offer some cut/pastes taken directly from DP’s Manifesto…
He mentions such shaping legends as Rennie Yater and Mickey Munoz, and asks “are we to tell them that their lifetime of commitment means nothing, and that they are only good for production piecework, as shaping drones, endlessly cutting rocker into foam?” He then goes on to write, “I don’t support efforts like SurfTech’s unequivocably (sic), but as a step in the right direction: the search for better materials and better manufacturing for those surfers who cherish the form. And to honor the master shapers – their vision, their dedication, their commitment. You don’t think they deserve it?”
These gentlemen named – and others who shape plugs for the SurfTech molds – may well be master shapers and worthy of our respect. By all means, let’s have banquets for them, erect bronze busts of them in their hometowns, read lengthy biographies about them in the surf magazines – but I am not so sure I want them designing my surfboards.
Why not?
For the simple reason that many of these guys may well be superb craftsmen and venerable foamsmiths, but are not exactly what forward-looking surfers would call ‘contemporary surfboard designers’. Past contributions made by these gentlemen to the surfboard family tree have certainly been noteworthy and valuable. …Yet, I feel compelled to mention that ‘past contributions’ normally do little to advance surfboard design in the ‘future’, which is where most of us will be doing a lot of our surfing.
Many of these shapers have added little or nothing to the design kingdom in decades. I guess what I am prodding at here is a truth that must be faced: while the garden-variety longboard is certainly a popular type of surfboard and is here to stay whether we like it or not, it hardly represents the cutting edge of the progressive design spearhead.
I feel little animosity towards the shapers who have “sold out” by shaping a mold plug for a SurfTech model for the simple reason that I am absolutely certain they will end up being ‘hoist by their own petard’, as it were. If you look closely at the history of the surf industry you will see that every business that sold out its “hardcore” roots eventually got its head lopped off in a “hardcore” intifada. I also feel some pity for all the poor saps that buy these boards - only to take their place in the line-up next to ten other guys with a surfboard that is identical to theirs. Surfers have always been very concerned with perceived individuality. How are people going to identify their own board on the beach? What if two or more identical boards wash up on the beach? Will board thieves prey upon this loophole? Will our surfboards now have to have V.I.N.s on them? Regarding the SurfTech line of surfboards currently being hyped and marketed, I believe that if I were a novice-to-moderately-skilled surfer that wanted an over-sized water toy, say a paddleboard, sailboard or big generic tanker, I would definitely state that their type of composite construction (polystyrene bead foam core, vacuum-bag & epoxy resin) would certainly produce a reliable board (for much the same reasons as a weekend paddler would choose a Scupper kayak over a custom, carbon fiber Tsunami Ranger kayak). If I were a gullible consumer, I wouldn’t understand the difference between impact strength and shear strength. However, if one is an expert or highly skilled surfer he would mostly ignore this type of surfboard – they’d be far more interested in pressing ahead towards designing or participating in the design of their own custom-made equipment.
I say this to all those surfers who – for whatever reason – applaud the ideology of the molded pop-out board a’la SurfTech/ Cobra: If you have somehow lost the thread of progressive surfboard design in your middle years, fine, go ahead and ride one of those Hasbro surfcraft – it’ll look nifty in your garage next to your other emblems of faltering commitment gathering dust there, such as your Tupperware kayak and Chinese-made mountain bike.
(Mr. George’s claim that Tom Blake would ride a SurfTech board, aside from being self-serving jingoistic tripe, is not borne out by fact; Blake discarded the use of epoxies early on due to health concerns. I cannot imagine this wonderful and humane individual allowing people in a developing country bear the brunt for him.).
Hey John – How’s it going? I for one have had many occasions where I wish I had words to take back. Oh well. Maybe Dave’s opportunities just presented themselves differently this time around. I’m sure working on that scale and size, plus the quick demand this season (ask Carve Nalu) had some to do with it.
As for the quote about Yater being over the hill, I was over at his shaping factory a couple of days ago while Kevin was working on some of their latest and greatest. Yater backs up the van to load for a trip to the glassers, and all of the boards were compressed EPS longboards a few of which were routed for quad set ups. He’s using carbon decks and weighing out at 13 – 14 pounds. He mentioned how the new fin ideas really excited him. There were a lot of custom blanks in the racks, as well as machine cuts, Balsa Guns, and a few surftechs for the Beach House. There were his original Clark mold plugs and the Grey Lady from long ago. Spanning more than my lifetime of 52 years.
There is no controversial story here. Dave is a good guy. Let’s move on.
Ok with everyone?
And Yater keeping it fresh and real after 52 years is awesome.
Good post, Skip. Informative and well grounded. I felt like I was there.
yater keeping it fresh for more than just 52 years.
I believe the fellow protesth too much?
a calculating mind changes horses at whim.
if the horse you ride into newport
is a colormad wetsuit clad and polka dots upstage youself
then drop out to central
and become the dropped out genius
embracing the black suit and clear board
then morph along selling sincerity
till a profitable advancement in the
Incorperation appears then like a bufo in the dark
swat that fly with a sticky tounge.
the race of I know stuff guys has decended
upon this new market oppertunity.
bless their hearts
the money they make will be spent .
many will benefit.
Donations to all sorts of tax deductable charity organizations
willbe deeply appreciated.promo tours world wide and photo ops
will be endured by STARS decended from promo heaven.
POPOV made vodka.
shipped it world wide
now its absolute and stoli
greg Noll sold to sportsways
aint no sportsways surfboards
no sportsways scuba fins either
the test of time for craftsmen?
the test of time for commitment to a school of surfing …
the test of a surfing dicipline
to surf alternate venues
geographic as well as mediums
it a life long quest.
good luck
the lesson on the
learning channel
is about the batch of 100
that comes with the finboxes
on the wrong end
or the wrong side.
overseas manufacturing
is as good as the quality control inspectors
you know inspected by #42…
the temptation to sell out is great
no wonder the tradgidies are written
about the fall from nobility to earth.
humanity is constantly leveling.
the first will be last and the last shall be first…
the concerned meetooists
are setting quite a pace
on the SUP gold rush
buy one quick while they are still expensive
get em autographed
when they start discounting
costco and walmart will be scary cheap.
…ambrose…
brand names built all day
Knock offs built all night
lets just wait for the photos of the east coast promo tour
and france…and yakatat
and nova scotia fall
and brasil
and giant Chile
peru, equador
dont forget blacks
posing with the sunbathers
for the alternate life style sales
oh and when the figure out the air shipping
the complementary crate …
no I’m sorry that will be xtra