Paul, I have a Liddle 7’8" Island template(2+1) and as I want to surf it as a single fin was hoping you could make me a fin for it. I have an 8.5" glass fin with the narrower base, but was looking to give the board a little more drive. A wider based fin maybe? Thanks, Alex Santa Barbara
before you give PG the $ for a fin you may want to try a 9"l-flex by true ames, then go from there.
That’s what I think you should do to start…
Alex, Write me at if you want to talk further…
paul, what was all that about you putting your name on the wilderness fin templates at Ames fins for last 10 yrs? do you even stand up surf?
That`s it. A good question that that deserves a good answer.
I stand up when I surf. I don’t wear a leash. I post in Swaylock using my full name.
http://www.spencesurfboards.com/W_fins.htm Some dude wandered into my surf shop one day carrying a Wilderness surfboard from the late 60’s or very early 70’s under his arm. We grabbed a piece of cardboard, a pencil and traced a fin template. Using a copy machine, we made more templates in the 9" (pictured in the above link), 8" templates, even some 10". We sent the templates to True Ames and they made fins for us. Until I closed my shop in '97, no fins utilizing the Wilderness template ever bore any label other than those pictured. Any fins out there that bear some other label were made after I closed my shop. After the shop we had no control over what some fin company decided to scrawl on their fins. http://www.spencesurfboards.com/W_fins.htm
hey spence,where can i purchase some fins like the ones that you posted?
The top fin was never available commercially. A modified version, 3/8" thick with a 5 1/2" base was available from my surf shop from '93 to '97 and bore the name, PG - 9.5". It’s no longer available but something that looks a lot like that fin started appearing in shops around our area in '97. It’s currently available from True Ames Fin Co. (http://www.trueames.com/greenough.htm). The 9" - W fins are still available I imagine. Here’s what you do. “True Ames Fins.” “Hi, I’d like to order some fins please.” “No problem. Hang on, let me get a pen. Okay, what would you like?” “I’d like to order some of the 9” Wilderness fins. Please make them out of a 1/2" panel, and shape some flex into the top 1/3." http://www.spencesurfboards.com/W_fins.htm
the fins of which you speak were wilderness templates at trueames fins . then all the fins had PGWILDERNESS on them also sold as such. that is the real story . the evidence is still there boys check it out.
1.i’ve seen these fins wear many different labels since they started making them after Paul sent them a template per earlier discussions.as indicated in the photo the first were merely “w”.I’ve seen 'em marked pgw, pg wilderness, wilderness/greenough.As alluded to earlier, these guys had NO control over what got labeled how, and lord knows they didn’t get any $ for it. 2.we have two people who were fortunate enough to work with the genius of Greenough.one who’s passion and focus for decades has been the earlier Greenough displacement hull stubbie designs, the other on the later Greenough tri-plane edge board designs.I know the former doesn’t care to dabble in the latter’s designs 'cause he doesn’t ride those type of boards and it’s not his pasion or interest and i’m sure the same could be said about the latter.it was thru the passion of the first that an old design popped up and was revisited, and then refined-period.i doubt this fin design would have been revived by the latter as the boards he builds don’t lend themselves to utilize this fin.it just happened that because one was building hulled stubbies, a guy thought it would be neat to bring in an old one-you know wow, look at this.this is how they used to be and this is how they are now.lot’s of refinement done over the years.a fin template was taken, refined, built and one of the all-time rippin’fin designs was revived.the fin manufacturer has taken it and run with it,doing with it what he pleases-period. 3.it really shouldn’t be a big deal, because quite honestly,we have all benefitted from the re-introduction of this fin, and I sincerely doubt that would have happened if a certain individual wasn’t making the type of board that originally utilized this fin.That’s the plain and simple of it.
most shops carry the true-ames line of fins.one note-the fins pictured are thicker and have a different foil than the ones currently being produced.
My real name? For that you`d need to be wearing an extra rubber diaper.
my interest was in the way pg got on wilderness templates and the wanted to be paid for them .this happened at trueames not at a surf shop they still are there.
I wish I was cool enough to call myself Ranchlander.
The only fin I asked Chuck Ames about compenstaion was the 9.5" PG flex fin, the 9" PG flex fin, and the 9.75" PG Whale Tail. They were in his catalog. I never asked, or would want, anything from the true Wilderness templates. That would be ridiculous.
To clarify, those three fins were in his catalog and also listed under my name. I asked Chuck to either compensate me for using the fins with my name (anything…pennies a fin,) or take them out of his catlog. That’s was it. That’s what anyone would do. If someone was selling “Dale Solomonson mats valves” without his permission, Dale would ask about it. He’d be crazy not to. And, those “Paul Gross” fins are still in there the last time I saw his website, with my name listed as the designer. And I have never been compensated. That is wrong. But, it’s not a big deal. I had competley forgotten about it until it came up in these threads from someone who won’t even post his full name.
If any of you opened up this link and saw your name and design presented like this you would at least ask the manufacturer about it, right? Was I being unreasonable? http://surfingsports.com/product.asp?prod=taf_surf_PaulGrossWhaleTail9625
Paul, that’s disturbing allright. I was lead to believe that the Aimes fins come from overseas? This is headed off on a tangent, what are your thoughts on the G.G. Paddle? Your opinion has weight with me.