pecking order in the lineup

General Discussion
1

Hi Guys,

I’m new to Swaylocks with regard to posting, however I’ve been an avid reader of the forums for a number of years and have generally enjoyed peoples posts and comments.

My question is not specifically design related, but your views are keenly sought.

How do you older guys(I’m 55yrs) deal with younger(or more competent) surfers constantly paddling inside you and thereby claiming “priority” on the next set waves that come thro’.

I’m noticing this more often as I get older and as our breaks get more crowded.

I still surf a shortboard (well almost! it’s grown to 7ft) and don’t ride a Mal in good waves, and as I’ve got older I just need a little more time on takeoff and so now sit a little further down the line but it seems that that’s all the young bucks need and they just take off inside(as I suspect I did when I was younger)

I don’t have this problem locally as us older guys are known but it arises when I travel(I go to Indo every winter)

I know I can solve this problem by riding a Mal but that’s not what I want to hear

It would be great to get your views, opinions and suggestions!

What other sports have “old fossils” and “young bucks” competing for the same scarse resourses?

2

First of all, the “rules of the road” as I understand them have always been that the surfer with outside position, closer to the hook, up first, etc. has the right of way, so I am somewhat puzzled about what the issue really is. Second, if you truly can still compete for waves on an equal footing at 55, you seem to have rendered your own question moot. The informal “rules” (memorandum of understanding ;?) come first, then within that context it is a matter of ability.

BTW, I’ll be 58 in August. About 5-6 years ago I was in the water with a couple of guys who were at a guess late twenties to early thirties. The waves were OK, but not killer (diminishing ground swell), breaking from a single peak (rare here), and there was quite a wait between sets. So a general conversation ensued, covering surfboards, surfing, personal histories, etc. I let my age slip, not in any attempt to gain deference, but just in the course of conversation. The next thing you know, these guys were pulling an Alphonse and Gaston act (http://www.toonopedia.com/alphgast.htm), letting me have every wave with an excessive (but apparently sincere) show of respect. It was farking humiliating! Since that incident, I have taken great care not to mention anything in the water that could lead to a similar situation.

All I ever asked for in the lineup is a fair chance to establish position and catch a wave. I also treasure the perspective that age and experience has wrought that allows me to remain competitive in the larger sense without needing to win every little battle, and to occasionally enjoy just sitting and watching the ocean and its critters, of both the native and neoprene-clad varieties. The idea of an “easy button” for older surfers to majikally catch waves at the same clip as their youthful counterparts might fall under the category of “be careful what you wish for”…

-Samiam

3

smile a lot. encourage grommets. defer to your elders. hoot people into waves. say gday. engage fellow surfers in conversation. i find surfers are less likely to burn each other once they have made contact.

alternatively, you could do what my dad does (he’s turning 55 this year). he just reminds the lineup about ‘the grandfather rule’. grandfathers get priority, or so he reckons. it’s entirely his idea, but it does get him a few extra waves. lol.

4

howzit, sam…

i’m 24 years old, and ride longboards pretty much exclusively…so i generally tend to get my pick of the waves that come through. the result is that i tend to make friends quickly in the lineup, and i’m always happy to share…however, things may not be the same where you’re at…so my recommendation is this:

drop in on 'em!!!..but do it with a warning and a smile! as you and the youngins are both paddling for that next set, just give ‘em a look and a nod of the head that lets ‘em know you’re goin’ for it. then…drop in. there will likely be a collision or two, but when the guy comes back bitching at you, simply put on the biggest smile you can and tell him that the waves are for everybody, and that he can’t just keep paddling around you to take off deeper on every wave. then turn right back around and start talking with a buddy so he won’t keep bitching. it might take a second attempt, as well…but i guarantee he’ll start passing waves off to you (better that than crack his board in half trying to sneak in behind a dude who’s droppin’ in no matter what!), and he may even tell his friends!

6

There have been a lot of issues with this where I surf. I am not that old (31) and will be sitting on the peak with a group of locals, and kids in their early teens will just paddle through the pack and sit in front of you. The ones that are not as brave just sit right in the impact zone. Every time you try to drop, it is like a slolam course. I have found that once you run them over with a heavy log, they stay out of the way. I am not opposed to sharing, but if someone is waiting for a wave and you are just paddling out, they have priority. If someone is paddling for a wave and you are paddling out, you cannot just paddle behind them and “claim” priority. That is called a snake. I often handle it by just telling them “you take this one” or “I’m taking this one”. When they realize that you do share and aren’t kidding when you tell them that you are going. They will pay attention. As to the above cartoon, It happens, and just as often as not a shortboarder is at fault.

7

Hmmm…personally I think the whole concept of “pecking order” sounds like pigeons pecking around for good nuggets in dog poop…

There are a very few “rules” concerning wave priority, and beyond that basic manners should take care of things. This being 2007 though…a lesser reality intrudes.

In recent years I made my peace with things by adopting certain surf times and days (skip weekends unless with friends, for one example), trying alternative equpment that allowed surfing at drastically less-populated beaches, etc. Time has moved on and a billion more germs have moved in, so that strategy for me is undergoing a major overhaul, and how that comes out remains to be seen. That said:

When I have priority and somebody paddles in front or in back of me, I go. I hate recreational violence and agression so I’ve never been one to ride right up and flick the nose of the board at anybody. Instead, I’ll ride up right behind the snake and just ride right behind him, giving him the chance to consider just what will happen to him if he falls off. I refuse to acknowledge that person exists, except for thanking anybody who gets in front and then exits to allow me to continue. If somebody rides behind me (I’m never standing on a board smaller than 7 foot anymore) I figure just let them ride, although I like to stall or cutback a bit just to keep them guessing. I’m the one doing them the favor by not making a big scene. If I’m on a wave and somebody catches the broken wave white water behind me and thinks that gives any kind of priority, that person can eat dog dirt and die as far as I’m concerned.

This is all for basic recreational surf, nothing world class or terribly serious…I’d probably turn into as big a prick as the rest if I was in an arena all the time.

Nels

8
Quote:

jus go!

like they say in makaha

the best like big ben do it to them all the time

then fade longer

and turn harder off the bottom

so your spray hit’s them right in the face

like soulstice says they won’t do it to you after a while

otherwise you just have to paddle in and take off deeper

kids always like test the boundries so you have to show them

in my day the old timers would just pound you

take your board away and make you swim in

there’s just no lineup enforcement anymore

but it’s bound to come back the way things are going.

here’s the exact opposite problem…

printed without permission:

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Good one B. Us big guys don’t really have to worry that much if we can paddle. The kids youth and light weight is their advantage. Our size and experience at re arranging dental work is ours. Ha Ha. I used to be the guy closest to the hook had the wave, but if he passed on a good wave or kuked out…he was hard pressed to get another at a crowded spot.

9

I’m glad somebody finally asked this question on-line.

I was always taught, you wait your turn in the lineup, and when it’s your wave you go. In “friendly” Santa Cruz this never happens; iregardless of age or board type, I see people dropping-in, paddling around, and full on snaking. It gets frustrating as hell for those of us that attempt to play by the rules. I just try to settle for less waves and a more peaceful session, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t bug me.

11

It never hurts to approach a local on the beach or in the parking lot and ask a simple question regarding the line up or whatever. Maybe when paddling near the take off zone ask something stupid like “Permission to enter line up?” Most guys will laugh and tell you to come on in. Maybe compliment a nice ride if you see one. Everybody likes that one. They probably won’t serve you up a set wave on a platter but at least it breaks the ice.

Patience pays off. Wait your turn and settle for leftovers initially. Make your first wave count. If it looks like you won’t waste the next one, you’re more likely to get a little respect.

Some places are so crowded and competitive, you’d better be an expert and have a lot of tricks up your sleeve if you want to score waves.

12

Just get a waveski.

13

If someone insists on being a jerk, and back-paddling repeatedly, I look them right in the eye as I drop in, in front of them. Should they object, I tell them: “I am not out here to watch you surf”.

For instance. One warm Summer day, the waves were about waist high and very clean.

Perfect day to just paddle out on a log and have a little relaxing fun. Initially, there were just three of us, all good friends, sharing a nice little point break setup. This particular spot will only break at low tide, when small. The take-off is a no-brainer, as there’s a rock/boil at the deepest part of the peak. Take off behind the rock, and you’ll either bust a fin out, or at least not make the first section.

After about an hour, this kid (about 15) paddles out on a really small board. Stickers all over it, maybe sponsored (or not). Whatever the case, he paddles right past everyone, and straight to the outside. Doesn’t say a word, not a ‘head nod’, nothing. We pegged him for a tourist as he wasn’t familiar to us, and we all know the local crew (we ARE the “local crew”). First set comes through, and the kid goes for the first wave. We let it slide.

He paddles back out, right past the pack, and sits deep on the rock. Next set, same deal. So, I paddle to the left (the wave is a right) right in his path. I get to my feet, and do a ‘left-go-right’. His behavior doesn’t change. So, we all purposely drop in on him, on every wave. Finally, he goes even deeper out of frustration. His reward was a trip over the outside rock, and at least one busted fin.

Fuck tourists with attitude.

14

Problem I see with that is that the kid goes home thinking, “What a bunch of kooks, shoulder hopping me.”

He never learns his lesson. It might have been better for someone to just go up to him and tell him there’s a rotation and he should wait his turn.

15

Couple months ago I was in crappy small surf in Mexico. Me on a mat and 4 local teenagers on chips. They were back paddling me front paddling me "hey hey"ing me. I just rode leftovers. Could easily have thumped any or all of them most likely.

Then my moment came. I was inside and one of them without a leash lost his board. I snagged it as it went by and paddled it back out to him. Suddenly, I was in the rotation and even being called into waves. Politics…

16

My partner and I have just returned from a week in Noosa. We surfed First point as there did’nt seem any need to go further out into the national park looking for better waves.

I was quite supprised how mellow the feel was in the water. Lots of novice surfers clogging up the water down the line. If they got in the way i’d let them know how to avoid a similar situation next time as I was paddling back out.

The locals, and some of them are world class surfers were great. As soon as they saw that we could surf and were taking our turn in the line up there were no problems at all.

As some one said in an earlier post, make that first wave count. Sit in the line up for a few sets and takeing a lesser wave first will go a long way to giving a non local a whole lot of cred in the line up.

At my home break, if some one keeps paddling to the inside, they will soon be told that this will not be tollerated for too much longer. We have a good mix of ages and everyone gets on for the most part. If the kids get to big headed they are soon bought back into line with a quiet word from the more senior (grey haired) members of the line up. And if they don’t take the advice on board they will get dropped in on. They soon learn. platty.

http://www.davidplattsurfboardrestorations.com.au

17
Quote:

Problem I see with that is that the kid goes home thinking, “What a bunch of kooks, shoulder hopping me.”

I doubt it. We made it pretty obvious that we were stuffing him on purpose. Shoulder-hoppers typically don’t look behind them. I looked him right in the eye as I paddled toward him. The kid obviously thought he was hot shit. He no doubt figured he didn’t need to acknowledge the presence of a bunch of “old longboarders”.

18
Quote:

…

this is swaylocks

if you spend alot of time here

then you should get pretty comfortable

fixing your stick no matter what happens to it…

Back in the day (when we could count 150 surfers in a 2-block stretch of beach break), I became an artist with a soda can full of wet sand, and a buddy (pre-leash) perfected the well-directed “flying kick-out” (in which not long after you dropped in on someone, an unpiloted surfboard came zooming at your board or your head) We were both conversant on the subject of ding repair. Truth be told, I’m much happier as a mellow fellow who may get slightly fewer waves than I did then…

-Samiam

19

" I became an artist with a soda can full of wet sand, and a buddy (pre-leash) perfected the well-directed “flying kick-out”

I think these days, either of those could actions could result in severe legal repercussions.

20
Quote:

" I became an artist with a soda can full of wet sand, and a buddy (pre-leash) perfected the well-directed “flying kick-out”

I think these days, either of those could actions could result in severe legal repercussions.

More likely the can than the kickout. It would be interesting to see someone demonstrate in court that the latter didn’t result from an unplanned wipeout, and further that a board could be directed by that maneuver with any reliable accuracy. Hell, it took me a few times as a direct witness (and at least once as a target :slight_smile: before I really believed it. And even the can used as a cookie-cutter on someone’s deck (I was clear that it was so directed, was I not?) is a considerably lesser offense, legally and morally, than the ejection of an offender’s teeth down his esophagus, as has been mentioned as a (apparently contemporary) tactic elsewhere in this thread. Today, of course, soda can edges are rounded to a fare-the-well, and the flying kickout would only result in something strongly resembling this toy http://www.mybambino.com/media/paddleball.jpg with surfer as the paddle and his board as the ball…

-Samiam