Polling tail shape

CassS · March 23, 2012, 12:50am

Hi folks,

Because I’m both lazy and indecisive, I thought I’d put a question on tail shape to the Sway’s “cloud”, or is that the “clouded”, to help me make up my mind on tail shape for my next personal board. The basic plan shape below has a moon tail, because it’s based loosely on Proctor’s Lil Rascal II.

But now that I’ve pretty much finished shaping it, but for the butt, I’ve taken a second look and some other, more swallow-to-fish alternatives have come to mind.

So what do you think? Should I stick with the moon?

The shallow swallow?

Or the Deep Throat (or deep buttcrack, as it were)?

As you can see, I’ve marked off a couple of even deeper options, but have discounted them because… well because they will look like shit. The dots you can see are where the back of the rear fins on a quad set will sit. Have gone with the McKee formula to place them.

The board’s dims are: 6’ x 15.75" (tail) x 20.75" (widepoint 3.5" ahead of middle) x 15.75 (nose) x 2.25" thick

Basically this is a question about aethetics, rather than designing for function (depending on who you talk to). But hell, it doesn’t hurt if a board looks good too, right?

nocean · March 23, 2012, 1:45am

I vote for the Moon Tail! , looks good on that board…

CassS · March 23, 2012, 3:49am

Aesthetics - I mean

Come on, if experience shows anything, it’s that you’re an opinionated lot. Give me your worst, even if it’s Ghettorat telling me it’s a piece of shit and my shaping skills are flawed (tell me something I don’t know).

(before you arc up GR, I love your work and would definitely welcome your contributions)

ghettorat · March 23, 2012, 4:22am

Actually, I was thinking how glassing moontails sucks, and I vote for anything else because of that. And your presentation is well done, except thinking the ghetto is only for knocking people down.

directionsurf · March 23, 2012, 4:24am

go the moon tail

CassS · March 23, 2012, 4:50am

Hey Ghetto, I know you’ve got way more than that going on, I was just, as they say over this side of the Pacific, taking the piss. All in a spirit of fun and good humour, not putting shit on anyone…

So what’s the difficulty with glassing the moon tail? I’d imagine it would involve lots of slitting and revisits to spots where the glass gets pulled out of whack and air bubbles pop up, but having not glassed one before, that’s only speculation.

pridmore · March 23, 2012, 5:30am

McKee and round tail…

CassS · March 23, 2012, 5:57am

I hear you Mark, but that’s not one of the options…

CassS · March 23, 2012, 8:59am

Me again,

In the interests of not sounding like an ungrateful bastard when advice is offered, I’ll continue the conversation.

Mark, I’ve seen a few of your round-tailed quads and farking love the look of them, but that was not the feel I was looking for, although I am aiming to add a bit more high performance to my quiver. So I’m not dismissing you outright (despite what I said).

But assuming the round tail is out of the picture (and it is), which of the three options would you go for?

Also (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong), you seem to be implying that the McKee setup may not be suited to this board. Would you, or anyone else for that matter, recommend a more Hanalei-style rear-set-closer-to-the-rail arrangement?

I thought it would suit the McKee, given that the tail is a fair bit narrower than the traditional fish. The points of the tail are 8" apart, rather than the 12"-ish measurements I’ve seen around here for the old school versions.

pridmore · March 23, 2012, 12:16pm

they all work, a matter of personal preference and how you want the board to feel really…if it was me, I’d set the fins closer to the rail, I find the McKee suits the higher perf type of surfin and the narrower and more typical shortboard shapes, but thats just me…dont listen to me, go with what you like mate…

Jamie · March 23, 2012, 2:08pm

I’m with ghetto on the complexities of the moon tail. Also it seems very succeptable to dings. Of the three, I would go with the shallow swallow. Keep it simple. I would have done a mild diamond tail, which you could still do if you don’t mind lopping off 1/2" or so on each rail. Diamonds work well with quads because they provide a bit of centerline stability and shorten the rail line to give you shorter radius turns (the high performance you seek).

On fin placement, in my experience, tails wider than 15" don’t work well with McKee setup. Too tracky for me. I have settled on Rusty’s recommended rear quad placement for wider tailed boards: ~2" off the rail and slightly back of half the distance between the front fins and the tail. 3/16" toe in. I have found this to be a nice balance of drive, looseness, and predictable control.

ghettorat · March 23, 2012, 3:18pm

Ok now make the board, because the suspense is deafening. “Its not like its going to the moon, or anything”, as Russell of Russell surfboards would say.

HerbSpitzer · March 23, 2012, 5:04pm

surfing wise moons really don't ride much different than a swallow or fish tail.

i like the look of a swallow vs. moon as well.

as far as a moon tail vs. swallow to glass.................i'm with rat on this one.

swallows/fish tails are bad enough.

moons require more relief cuts ,patching,etc.,etc.,etc.,,,,,and moons are weaker at the tips.

but if you're thinking,"it looks good going down the beach",then by all means try the moonie.

herb

surfiber · March 24, 2012, 12:04pm

howdy herb,

like cassS, i’m currently making a 6’ fish-“type” board (HWS) and am still scratching my head on a final tail shape-- fish, swallow or moon tail-- as long as there’s a buttcrack to give that fishy feel. would a split-diamond tail a la tomo’s ride any different ?

buttcrack depth on this one looks at least 6" or 8" deep at most, which makes me wonder whether going fish (splitting the tail) helps or hinders a twin or a quad setup in performing better, regardless of differences in bottom contours.

cheers,

rooster · March 24, 2012, 2:25pm

For what its worth from a garage hac. I was at the same exact crossroad as you when I decided I wanted a long fish. Instead of a fish tail I grabbed my garbage can lid and made an arc tail. I didn’t find glassing it any more difficult that glassing a fish tail.ie. using patches and strips to get it all covered. It was hard for me to get inside that arc with my saw, though. The board works pretty good, but I wouldn’t bother making another. Flip a coin and don’t look back. 2 more sharp points to get punctured by, too. Mike

CassS · March 25, 2012, 8:53am

Hey Herb. There’s no point in me making something based on whether it looks good going down the beach, cos usually it’s still dark and there’s nobody except maybe a crusty old fisho on the beach when I hit the sand. But in the interests of learning new skills and pushing myself a bit, I want to try something I haven’t done before.

I’m angling towards the shallow swallow at this stage. The good thing with this one is that if I’m not happy with how it looks, I can always revert to the moon, because they both have the same depth. I’ll head out into the shed one night this week and see what comes of it, but not until yesterday’s trip to the Barossa Valley and its numerous wineries has worn off…