i think the point of this thread is to brainstorm idea on how to make this build process work better and share our ideas, instead of just knock it out without any experience on it. Sure we can all compare to what the aerospace/racing yahcts/auto racing but all those are million dollar products, they use stuff that normal wage consumer will never able to afford or can’t even buy yet. This is just another alternative construction process like epoxy, poly, infusion, etc, just another way to skin a cat. Lets get back to the topic of polycarbonate process,cause i want to heard more about this process.
Gotta agree…IMO , it’s always a good thing to explore a new process and find the benefits…what I can’t agree with is advancements that are aimed at cheapness. …PSW has some possibilities though…my first thought would be the tensile strength ?
Been looking further into this tech and Ive found someone thats done this before for people who spent about 6 million trying to solve this riddle.
Considering that the process of general vaccforming is perfected, the problem is with the blanks and getting the intended result.
EPS melts under the heat of a thin “pulled” plastic so a thicker plastic is recommended ( .7mm) to cover the dimpling.
A support is needed to hold the board so that when the plastic is vacced down so it doesnt warp the blank.
Lots of foams have been used successfully so its all about getting the correct result.
Glues arent required to hold the skin to the blank.
Seems simple but the expectations are set high.
Thermoform machines cost~$400 per hour but its possible to do 10 boards per hour. About $40 per board…
Blank $40
Computer cut $40
Thermoform Wrap $40
As a form of outsourced automated surfboard making its almost effortless and capable of doing any custom shape.
Dont know why so many companies have had a go at doing this but why there are no thermo-skin boards out on the market ?
Hey Brett no offence mate but moulded EPS blanks are $85 and upwards (with stringer) in Sydney, not sure how you are adding up your costs?? Also as a backyarder when will you ever do a run of 10? I don’t want to be on the nay saying team but I don’t think that cost should be the main deciding factor if you’re trying to make a good surfboard??
maybe you could do it then come back and tell us what a success its been
or is this more boring meander?
Hey Dude.
If you’re BORED with what’s being said here, maybe YOU should move on. Or start your own “Non Boring” surfboard forum.
I’ve read a few posts lately from a few bored people here. " Boring meander" seems to be your catch phrase.
If this place puts you to sleep, why visit ?
VH.
P.S. I’m just curious… How come your typed font is always bolder than anyone elses? Is that a special privilege ?
Or do your words speak LOUDER than all others?
id rather have a soft board then a hard board. hardboards are not the future imo
Hey Dude.
If you’re BORED with what’s being said here, maybe YOU should move on. Or start your own “Non Boring” surfboard forum.
you dont like my repies then your the one with your panties in a knot
I’ve read a few posts lately from a few bored people here. " Boring meander" seems to be your catch phrase.
**no sony its its your mate that is keeping that going.
**
If this place puts you to sleep, why visit ?
VH.
so your the new authority on all things right? last time i looked i still had freedom of speach
lightenn up popeye
P.S. I’m just curious… How come your typed font is always bolder than anyone elses? Is that a special privilege ?
Or do your words speak LOUDER than all others?
oh god i think i have answered that question to moderators yrs ago
you dont like me good’’ please avoid me
by the way i dont see anywhere where it says please dont feed the chickens?
do yrself a favour go have a bex and a lay down
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Hi Marsh, Im not going to use EPS but a similar architectural grade of foam and in block form. I can get it for $17 but its only suitable for something the size of a prone board. If I can get it to work, I will do a run of 10 or 20 and just see if I can sell them at cost and get honest feedback from the buyers. Im not interested in making money, more about how this tech stands up to use.Maybe increase the production if all goes well…
Van Helsing, check your PMs and please accept my apologies for Huie.
Van Helsing, check your PMs and please accept my apologies for Huie.
[/quote
**ok i will give you the benefit of the doubt
using a quote by me on every post you make indicates to me that your just asking for retaliation use your own quote.
i dont need you to apologize for me the guy wants to attack me let him go ahead
my statement to you was go ahead do it show us
but doing it on a b board will not prove much.
for those that think i am just stirring (wrong) but i can see the flaws in this project**
and entitled to coment on this forum last time i checked
Hi Huie, if you can see flaws with this type of construction then please pass them on so I can avoid them, I think some of the problems with others using this tech is that they have had problems trying to replace / replicate the exact feel of the hi-performance pupe boards.... As well as satisfy a market that wants more and more but doesnt want to pay more for it.
From the pics from France it looks like they are producing boards so the next step would be to find out how they perform. Ive heard of about 4 or 5 different groups, over the past 6 years, who have tried thermoforming but no-one appears to have brought any boards out on the retail market yet, so theres got to be a good reason why they can make the boards but are ready to sell them.
Me, Im going with a different type of foam and working on a thicker and shorter blank to reduce distortion during molding and use. Im also using a professional thermoforming company who know what theyre doing. I will update as I progress.
I think I said why and pretty much got the same treatment as Huie. Maybe another 6 mil will do the trick. Huie, wtf do we know huh?
…the surface would also need to be perfect , before the final polycarbonate was applied., or it would show every imperfection on the surface…sounds like a job for a good experienced surfboard sander !
not trying to create imaginary obstacles here , just being objective about what Ive seen so far…
Thanks Kayu for your ideas, I too wondered if the EPS would need a slurry and sanding, maybe the Polycarb would emphasise or hide any micro-imperfections... I dunno..?
Im seeing the guys at the thermoforming company on Tuesday or Wednesday so I'll know more then.
Greg, I know you and Huie have many years of surfboard building behind you and know a lot about almost everything to do with surfboards.
But I ask what people actually know thru their actual personal experience with Polycarbonate Thermoforming. If you or Huie have tried thermofroming I think lots of us would be keen to hear what results you had and the types and thicknesses of materials / foam compositions / stringer combos / positioning techniques / vacuum pressures / additives / adhesives and / or solvent welding systems that you've used ?.
The process seems to be totally dependant on the core (as usual)…this stuff does not have tensile strength or impact strength that I can see…not unless the core is pre -treated before the final polycarbonate…in other words, (IMO) this stuff is a shortcut-cut way to do a gloss/polish and some graphics…I cant see how it would contribute to performance in any way…its purely cosmetic…
Hey Brett, I will PM you here and on sanded, would love to try the polycarbonate as well so maybe share some costs?
Now that is some swaylocks spirit. thanks for experimenting for us. Please report back and lets us know the good and the bad.
PMed you foamhack.
Ive spoken with foamhack and were keen to move forward with this.
And Ive spoken with a local thermoforming company, they reckon it can be done for about $100 a board but they want several foam samples to test which foams and thermoplastics are most compatable so Im handing over about 12 different foams and coatings.
Im keen to try a board that doesnt use any resin or glass…no laminating , no mixing, no heady aromas wafting thru the house, no sanding, no dust covering everything in sight, no buying sandpaper, no itching, no breathing in the dust. I love shaping foam but Im no fan of sanding glass.
I’ll have to donate my vacbagging setup to someone.