Hi everyone - I was hoping to get some opinions/feedback
I just had a 8’2" EPS mini longboard shaped by one of my local shapers. I wanted a close approximation of a CI waterhog I have ridden for the last 4-5 years (changed it to a quad and really worked good for me)
He did a really good job BUT I specified the fins @ 14" and 7" and they are set at 14" and 5". I mentioned that the spread looked big when I picked it up and he said he can add 2 more boxes if I wanted.
I plan on riding it a few times before I take it back (to see how it feels) I don’t think he will have a problem putting the fins where we agreed to when I ordered the board, he is a good guy and all work is done at his facility
My question is “how will having the rear fins that far back affect the ride?”
My guess is it will be stiffer, but will it have more drive ? How about paddling and wave catching?
How does having a wide spread on a quad affect the overall characteristics?
Spreading out the fin cluster, by pulling the fins back, adds what I interpret as stability… you might call it “stiffness.” In order to create a tight turning radius, you have to pick up your back foot and deliberately place it further back in order put pressure over the rear fins. Adjusting your line while trimming is basically the same. The difference is when you try to pivot turn off the tail. Personally, I’d be more forgiving if the fins were too far apart, as opposed to too close together.
Having that big of a spread kind of defeats the purpose of the quad set-up. Will surf more like a thruster, i.e. needs more rear-foot engagement to stay loose. You lose that skatey, free feeling that a good quad gives, allowing you to generate speed from a more forward position. IMO, the fronts are too far forward and the rears too far back. Have successfully used 12 1/2" & 6 1/2" for years on all shapes up to 7’10". Maybe bump them forward 1’2" for longer boards, but in my experience only guns, not mals nor mini-mals are best suited to quad set-ups when over 7’10". Single with side-bites, or widow-maker work better when you have a long, mostly parallel rail line.
I agree that the spread is too big and probably wont ride like quad.
I came up with these #'s based on a couple things. I took an 8’4" CI waterhog and added 2 boxes to make it a quad. The boxes were at 13 3/4 and 7. I really thought the board rode better than it did as a thruster. Was trying to improve a bit on it with this new board
NJ, so far, I have only used quad set-ups on guns up to 8’0", don’t personally get calls for bigger boards since moving from HI, other than a few I shaped for Pete Davi and others headed for the North Bore when I was shaping in Santa Cruz. Mavericks and other CA spots weren’t really in play in those days. As I said in my post, moving the whole cluster up just 1/2" has worked for me on the average gun. As for distances from the rail, I’ve placed the forward fins @ 1 3/16" in and rears @ 1 1/8", though now that I’m using Pro-Boxes with 6- or 8-degree inserts, I’m finding it’s best to increase those distances by 1/8" when laying out the lines for the box-setter, as the fins end up being more outboard due to the design of the boxes.
I think he did you a favor with the 5" dimension. It is the 14" that I have the problem with. Way too far forward. I like mine in the 11" area. Depending on the set up, hopefully FCS and then just add another plug! that would put them about right. You are measuring to the back of the fin, right?
I’m curious about your statement that you need to add an additional 1/8" to your measurements because when you have ProBoxes installed they move further outboard. How much are they moving?
This does not sound right to me as the system has been designed so that the fins will be on the lines if the boxes are correctly installed. I use them on all my boards and have never had a problem with them not sitting right on the lines.
The system has two marks on the jig (that are an 1/8" apart) one of these lines is used for a center box install (the one in the center) and the other is used for a side box install. If you use the side line the fin always ends up on the line. The side line has the little window in it that allows the jig to be centered on the back fin mark.
Could the installer be using the wrong line on the jig?
NJ, so far, I have only used quad set-ups on guns up to 8’0", don’t personally get calls for bigger boards since moving from HI, other than a few I shaped for Pete Davi and others headed for the North Bore when I was shaping in Santa Cruz. Mavericks and other CA spots weren’t really in play in those days. As I said in my post, moving the whole cluster up just 1/2" has worked for me on the average gun. As for distances from the rail, I’ve placed the forward fins @ 1 3/16" in and rears @ 1 1/8", though now that I’m using Pro-Boxes with 6- or 8-degree inserts, I’m finding it’s best to increase those distances by 1/8" when laying out the lines for the box-setter, as the fins end up being more outboard due to the design of the boxes.
Hi CAHlvet, Nice to see you using ProBoxes in your winter guns. Here’s a pic of a winter gun from Eric Arakawa that just got glassed by Horacio at Pupukea. Hope you can see the lines showing the postioning of the ProBoxes has Hand-Shaper is explaining. Love to see some pics of your boards, thanks for sharing and bringing up the line postioning. I have had others make the same comment and found they were marking off the wrong points.
Mahalo, Larry
Here’s a pic showing the marking hand-shaper is talking about.
Hey Larry, I was going to point out the same thing but you and Robin beat me to it.
Now, when are you guys going to start making jigs for the Left side of the board, all of mine are for the Right side… (they all say R on them). So far I’m using a work around, I stand on my head to do the installs on the Left. Ha ha.
Aloha Robin, thanx for the tip. My boards are currently being glassed by Dennis Ryder in Ventura and I’m not sure how many others are requesting Proboxes there, so it’s likely that an unfamiliarity with the alignment specs on the part ofthe installer has led to this problem–I’ll bring it to his attention.
I don’t think we’ve met but hope we can before long. Thanks to you and Robin, I can pass on the correct alignment information to the glasser. So far, I’ve only used the Proboxes in some prototypes of mid-length quad- and 5-fin (needs a new name?) rocket-fishy shapes, but will likely expand the usage once I’ve got solid feed-back that I can use to inform customers. Regrettably, I’m not in posession of a digital camera nor would I know how to post the pics if I did have them. Maybe in the future. Has anyone asked you to address the issue of inserts sticking up a bit when exchanged for the ones installed with the boxes (sanded flush)? It would be a shame to have to individually sand them down in the board while trying not to mar the finish of the bottom. So far , on my personal 6’8", I’ve played ith 4- and 6-degree cants, and am ready to try 8s on a new 6’8" that has a flatter bottom than the one I’m currently riding.
We are a little slow moving over here in Hawaii but we will get around to making the left jig in the very near future, mahalo! For now your work around is the ideal solution
If you take a look at a box before it is installed you will notice that the insert sits lower the the top surface of the box. It was designed this way so that the insert should not need to have it’s top sanded.
The times when they do need to be sanded are an indication that the installer did not push the box all the way down on to the bottom of the board, resulting in the box floating higher than it should. Then when it gets sanded down flush with bottom more of the box is removed resulting in the insert being a little raised.
It only takes a small amount of extra care to push the box down flush thereby avoiding this problem.
It is also worth noting that sometimes the insert might be raised a little but when the screws are tightened and the compression fit occurs the insert is pushed down into the box eliminating the raised top.
I’m doing a semigun for myself right now… a quad version, for winter… and I’m using Proboxes for the first time.
It looks like Arakawa is using something very similar to the McKee placement. Do you know if that’s true? Better yet… do you know the specs on that board and the fin placement #s?
I’m doing a 7’0, single concave, maybe some vee in the tail… two soft bumps and a shallow notched swallow. I want to put the bumps at the trailing edges of the fins, so I’m looking for fin placement numbers…
