I started my board as a single to fine tune the placement, then added the > runners. The old hulls I used to ride were all singles…The board worked > fine as a single. In fact, the runners do not affect the rail turn feel. > They, to me anyway, keep the tail from spinning if you stand too far back > or if you want to pivot turn for some reason (I use the tail slide for > bringing the board back off the top as it is quicker than railing it > around). Unfortunately, you’ll have to find your own sweetspot as it is > affected by not just the shape and length of the board, but also by the > waves you surf and the way you surf.>>> Newbs. Heres the big problem: ya don
t know what to ride anymore. If the hull thingie and pool toy werent bad enough. I say lets throw yourself over the edge and start using a longboard, midrange slug and a kneeboard, too. thatll cause total neuron discombobulation. then write back for more advice. dont forget to have fun while youre watching your bros KICK IT ALL LOOSE on their thrusters. “if it aint broke, dont fix it”
Heres the big problem: ya don
t know what to ride anymore. If the hull > thingie and pool toy werent bad enough. I say lets throw yourself over the > edge and start using a longboard, midrange slug and a kneeboard, too. > thatll cause total neuron discombobulation. then write back for more > advice. dont forget to have fun while youre watching your bros KICK IT > ALL LOOSE on their thrusters. “if it aint broke, dont fix it” I don’t know, you seem to have more problems with my choices than I do…Oh and its sKeptic not sceptic…
thirty years ago, sure!now?head high, point break not too much of a > problem, but empty??where’s the time machine???by the way have you got > that thing tuned in yet?if so, what did you use? Matt I think John Mellor gets the prize. I took the runners off and left the 8.5 in. Waves were so crappy I couldn’t really get a feel for the turns but the planing problem went away. I’ll sneak out Wednesday and fool around with it in some real surf…I hope. Newbs
I don’t know, you seem to have more problems with my choices than I > do…Oh and its sKeptic not sceptic… Newbs … I’m sure it’s spelled " septic "… always was, always is [blush] … have fun
I think John Mellor gets the prize. I took the runners off and left the > 8.5 in. Waves were so crappy I couldn’t really get a feel for the turns > but the planing problem went away. I’ll sneak out Wednesday and fool > around with it in some real surf…I hope. Newbs cool.hey, at least your getting waves!it’s been two weeks since anything resembling a wave has lapped up on the shores around here.
cool.hey, at least your getting waves!it’s been two weeks since anything > resembling a wave has lapped up on the shores around here. I know this thread is getting old but…I threw away the runners and got some real juice today…I had forgotten just how good a real rail turn feels in good surf. This NW must be on the Cental Coast if I got overhead stuff down here! Boy did I get 'er dialed in. I am so STOKED!!! Newbs
I know this thread is getting old but…I threw away the runners and got > some real juice today…I had forgotten just how good a real rail turn > feels in good surf. This NW must be on the Cental Coast if I got overhead > stuff down here! Boy did I get 'er dialed in. I am so STOKED!!!>>> Newbs No way this subject is getting old, Newbs!! In fact, you need to start a NEW one based on your latest hull adventures… we`re waiting for more!!! Dale
So correct me if I’m wrong but it seems to me that rail bites are not too functional on a surfboard with 50/50 rails and bellied bottom. This type of bottom was very quiet in the water but will only function well off the rails with a center fin of proper configuration and placed well that can really drive it. Rail fins afford little benefit and only serve to slow it down. I would think they would interfere with performance. The nature of this type of board bottom makes it want to run deeper in the water than flat bottom boards, which are more responsive to multiple fins because they are lighter in the water. There sure are many different ways to approach surf craft. I think the term Huller maybe confusing to some and clarification for a shaper who uses the term regularly would be of help. Research and development continues, Mahalo, Rich
I know this thread is getting old but…I threw away the runners and got > some real juice today…I had forgotten just how good a real rail turn > feels in good surf. This NW must be on the Cental Coast if I got overhead > stuff down here! Boy did I get ‘er dialed in. I am so STOKED!!!>>> Newbs Newbs- ahhh, i know that feeling and oooooo baby,ooooo baby pretty well sums it up!feels SO bitchin’ when it all comes together…
So correct me if I’m wrong but it seems to me that rail bites are not too > functional on a surfboard with 50/50 rails and bellied bottom. This type > of bottom was very quiet in the water but will only function well off the > rails with a center fin of proper configuration and placed well that can > really drive it. Rail fins afford little benefit and only serve to slow it > down. I would think they would interfere with performance. The nature of > this type of board bottom makes it want to run deeper in the water than > flat bottom boards, which are more responsive to multiple fins because > they are lighter in the water.>>> There sure are many different ways to approach surf craft.>>> I think the term Huller maybe confusing to some and clarification for a > shaper who uses the term regularly would be of help. To me the runners are not a performance enhancer as much as a solution to a common displacement hull quirk; the tail slides if you put your weight towards the back of the board. On bigger waves or going backside they really do help keep the tail around longer than without them. They are very small and have no cant or toe-in so you really can’t feel them on a fore hand turn. Rail turn performance is not affected. Also, they work best by aligning the leading edges of all the fins which is quite different from popular cluster configurations. An interesting misconception about Liddle’s current design is “belly”. I took a strait edge to mine and found an area about 12 inches (6 on each side of the stringer) wide is pretty much dead flat (there is true belly in the nose (tip back 18 inches) and very subtle in the tail behind the fin (18 inches up from the tail block)) The eggyness, to me anyway, is more of a pinching of the rails than a rounding of the bottom. The rails are not 50/50 but are more 40/60 (kinda turned up) and flow in a smooth S shape with the deck…Greg Liddle is as much a sculptor as a board maker. As for running deeper in the water…you would think they do but in reality they sure don’t seem to. Plowing straight ahead on a drop; yes, but as soon as you put the slightest pressure on a rail, you feel a significant lift or pull that negates any drag caused by the inefficient planing surface. Unfortunately, you’ve got to try one to really know and they are not the kind of board that you can borrow for a couple of waves and figure out. It took me almost all summer to find my “hull legs” and begin to get the most out of the design and I used to ride these things regularly in the mid seventies! Newbs
To me the runners are not a performance enhancer as much as a solution to > a common displacement hull quirk; the tail slides if you put your weight > towards the back of the board. On bigger waves or going backside they > really do help keep the tail around longer than without them. They are > very small and have no cant or toe-in so you really can’t feel them on a > fore hand turn. Rail turn performance is not affected. Also, they work > best by aligning the leading edges of all the fins which is quite > different from popular cluster configurations.>>> An interesting misconception about Liddle’s current design is > “belly”. I took a strait edge to mine and found an area about 12 > inches (6 on each side of the stringer) wide is pretty much dead flat > (there is true belly in the nose (tip back 18 inches) and very subtle in > the tail behind the fin (18 inches up from the tail block)) The eggyness, > to me anyway, is more of a pinching of the rails than a rounding of the > bottom. The rails are not 50/50 but are more 40/60 (kinda turned up) and > flow in a smooth S shape with the deck…Greg Liddle is as much a sculptor > as a board maker.>>> As for running deeper in the water…you would think they do but in > reality they sure don’t seem to. Plowing straight ahead on a drop; yes, > but as soon as you put the slightest pressure on a rail, you feel a > significant lift or pull that negates any drag caused by the inefficient > planing surface.>>> Unfortunately, you’ve got to try one to really know and they are not the > kind of board that you can borrow for a couple of waves and figure out. It > took me almost all summer to find my “hull legs” and begin to > get the most out of the design and I used to ride these things regularly > in the mid seventies!>>> Newbs Hey N.B. Thanks for taking the time to scan the bottom of the board out. That straight edge doesn’t lie does it? From what you say the board is a very lively thing that you ride pretty much over the flat section of the board. Moving a little forward or back tends to stall it. Boards like this with a wide tail and nose are almost all called eggs but you and I know there is a huge difference how they perform depending on who the shapper was and who’s riding it of course. Some eggs have bottoms and rails much like to boards of the mid 60"s. I think a flat section on one is intergral to its performance. I think the slight belly in the nose quiets the chop and the one in the tail acts very much like a vee and as you say the rail fins add some grab. With the flat section ahead of them the kick in just fine and with no cant or toe in they won’t slow things up much at all, I think with a slighly bigger single moved back a tad the board will probably perform better in bigger surf but I’ve had great results with very small rail fins and moving the center back a little. I’m tending to lean this way more and more when it comes to optimizing board performance. I think it’s easy to have rail bites that are too big. Fin set up and location is very critical on board like this.It’s a sensitive thing isn’t it! I’d love to do a little experimenting. Liddle’s website is very informative. His work is an interesting blend of old and new and the kind of board I’m sure I’d have a great time on. I love taking off way back in the pocket. I don’t make it all the time but who cares! Research and development continues-- Mahalo, Rich
So the runners are straight up and parallel? Howzabout foil? Symmetrical or flat on the inside?
So the runners are straight up and parallel? Howzabout foil? Symmetrical > or flat on the inside? Flat on the inside but very, very thin. Sunset Cliffs…never heard of 'em…although I have heard of a new break that’s near a pink house…
Flat on the inside but very, very thin. Sunset Cliffs…never heard of > 'em…although I have heard of a new break that’s near a pink house… …Pinkies! been to it many a time…
Newbs glad to here you got it dialed in.Matt and I are north bound this weekend.aloha Kirk