The FW’s are starting to show up in shops around here. They are getting mixed reviews which to me seem to stem from the different rider weights. I know Bert used to customize his boards for a rider’s weight and I’m wondering why they don’t have at least an optimal weight range for each board design. Is that information somewhere on the site that I’m missing?
I’ll check into that Waaahoo.
Thanks Wildy
that would be a big help in getting me to understand the current performance of my 6’0 fishtail model…
It’s the smallest board I own at 200lbs
but maybe it’s still too big or the wrong design for my break…
Waaahoo, the response I received was that we are similar to several other big manufacturers, whose websites don’t give that info either. As a surfer you have to make your own choice, either through your own experience, or the information you receive from either here or your friendly shop assistant (who may or may not know enough about it).
Personally I think the general surfing public need to get used to the differences in pu/pe and eps/epoxy. This is obviously going to take some time.
The general rule is going a bit thinner and possibly a bit wider to compensate. I had a 6’0 x 19.5" x 2 3/8" pu/pe so I made myself a compsand 6’0 x 19.5" x 2 1/8" and it goes pretty similar. But I’m 5’5", 140lb, and been surfing for 30 years.
As far as a 200lb guy on a 6’0 fish, I won’t make a call there. A 6’0 board seems short for a 200lb guy, but fish are generally thicker and flatter rocker. Again it all depends on your height, surfing ability and experience, where and what size waves you want to ride it in. And I imagine not all 6’0 fish are the same.
Until everyone gets used to the differences in materials and manufacturing techniques there will be lots of questions, and my answer will probably be the same as it was years ago; try as many boards as you can and work out what you like by trial and error. For the habituated pu/pe riders, there’s a whole lot of new stuff to learn about when it comes to changing your boards materials, not just different resin and foam.
For those who want a quick fix, I have no answer.
Until new tech get’s accepted as mainstream and all the variables get pigeon-holed for human consumption, there’s a whole lot of learning to be done by everyone.
Do the same thing as I do when I test the flex on snowboards in shops. Put the tail on a carpet, grab it by the nose and put one foot at the center. Now flex it as much you can. That way you can build up a feel for how stiff the board is. If it feel like a noodle, it’s too soft. If it feels like a 2x4 plank, it’s too stiff. If it’s got some nice twang, it might be a good choice. After a while you’ll get a feel for it. Plus it’s going to freak out the kid behind the counter.
regards,
Håvard
Thanks for trying Wildy but unlike the "other big manufacturers’ the firewires have a springer that is weight dependent for its’ flex. Seems kind of silly to make a board with a special feature and then withold the information needed to select it. especially with the price tag on them.
I can understand their reluctance to limit their sales to certain sized customers but maybe they should just produce 3 different-springered versions of each board to cover the average weight range for the board’s size.
Like a 6’0 with a springer for 100-133lbs, one for 134-166lbs, and 166- 200.
I don’t think that they are using springers in the way that Bert refered, but rather what he talked about with timber orientation. I would think that they first need to get production worked out before they move into customizing.
The broken Firewire board pic didn’t show a springer so I’m guessing they don’t use one. I could be wrong since I guess they could put small piece towards the tail.
I do agree with adding flex as an option for a rider. I read somewhere about Taj complaining about Firewire’s being to springy so they had to stiffen his board up. I’ve also heard of people complaining about Firewire’s being too stiff. So I guess it all depends on how someone surfs. Another reason to make your own [;)]
Cheers,
Rio
well one thing that’s never mentioned is that super light boards with big fat noses and wide flat profiles don’t work well in windy conditions and most good breaks only get good when there’s strong offshores… Curren on a firewire fish versus a frye fish at jeffries would be a good demonstration of this “unspoken” issue with super light and floaty styro boards…
I think a little honesty regarding that problem would be a nice change of posture,
Even the famous Jan mag had some pro’s commenting about the issue with windy conditions.
And that marketing blurb they told Wildy to convey is just a fancy way of saying we don’t know because we don’t totally understand the technology ourselves yet either…
Plausible deniability
all seems pretty straight forward to me
springer is a valid concept but not neccesary
its primarily about a balance between the core thickness/density and the sandwich thickness/density
Hey DanB,
The HOME part of their website shows a balsa springer built into the top of the board.
Daklaw: That’s what someone told me. “It felt noodle-ly”
The HOME part of their website shows a balsa springer built into the top of the board.
Exactly, thats not the springer Bert talked about, but rather orientation of balsa. A true springer add in some situations and takes away in others. Because of the way I surf I no longer use them.
The most honest statement I can say then is to go out and try as many boards as you can.
I’m sure you will love some and hate others, no matter what the design, materials, brand, shaper hype or sales pitch.
Hopefully you will end up with a board you like and a design theory of your own you can work on, making your future boards better.
If you need to know the more intricate details then I suggest you contact a designer personally. Then you can order a custom board instead of being disappointed by something off the rack that doesn’t suit you.
To that point the custom surfboard will never die.
I don’t really want anyone to read too much into this, (give there are a lot more board educated guys out there than myself, no doubt)…
However, with the surf industry being such a money making machine these days as it is, marketing gimics are hyped more and more in the media, trying to resell the
same thing. Over and over you see new innovative surfboard design, materials being used, techniques in the construction process - but ultimately they are selling the same thing, a surfboard.
So here’s how I look at things whenever stuff like this comes around, skateboards were made out of wood when they started, and they’ll be made out of wood when your grandkids ride one. Now… even though surfboards used to be made out of wood, foam cores obviously set a standard and for the most part I’m sure they’ll always be made out of some sort of foam. And yet wood surfboards, whether hallow or balsa are surfacing and popular once again. Because it works.
thats why kratos surfboards builds flex into their boards base on weight and ability of the surfer,
By using a more flexible foam core(lap form core) and using many kinds of fiberglass, carbon, and kevlar we can engineer a better flex rebound than with most other surfboards ,the foam is also 100% envio friendly and recyclable,no tdi,right now we are only doing customs but we will soon have a line of surfboards base on ability and weight just like snowboards water skis and snow skis …
dont be surprised if you don’t see the same thing from C.I now that they our owned by burton snow boards they have the money and the technology to do so …
new web site not completely finished www.kratossurfboards.com
I dont think thats the case Oneula.
I think if you got a performance FW that suited you correctly (say a Flexfire 6’8 x 2 3/8 or so), something other than a stubby fish, you might (likely) be delighted.
The thing thats missing from many of these discussions is the amount of control and trippy feel you get when you get the right one. The best way I can describe it is feeling about 15 years younger…and Im being humble with that comment. I also know that in gutless conditions without a significant drop, there’s no benefit. When there’s a real drop, thats when the trip starts.
Im afraid a thick fish made for small waves just aint gonna cut it dude. I hate to tell you this but you didnt make the best product choice. (If) When you do, you’ll be singing a different tune.
FWIW, my own version is soft medium rails, flat bottom with reduced rocker and plenty o flex. VERY simple. The pop is the big difference.
And btw, flex tuning to the rider is paramount. This doesnt mean it cant be had off the shelf…if youre an averaged sized surfer with good progressive skills its much easier to reach off the rack. Unique individuals should go more custom…which could simply mean having a lengthy phone conversation with a knowledgable mfg’s rep. Rider weight, style, waves, current eq are the most important design input parameters. Leave any of those out and youre in Vegas. Let them pick the right tool.
If not, wait until you can get a custom or make your own. The former option is MUCH easier…trust me on that one. Even so, it might take a couple of trials before your dialed in just right…its taken me about 8 trials over almost 3 years…mucho MUCHO dinero dude! Proly worth it if I had some waves to catch
onward…
EDIT: with good care, a FW will likely surf BETTER over time…as opposed to ultralight pupe which goes dead in a matter of a few short weeks.
Thanks Wildythat would be a big help in getting me to understand the current performance of my 6’0 fishtail model…
It’s the smallest board I own at 200lbs
but maybe it’s still too big or the wrong design for my break…
Aloha Oneula
I should have some Firewire Demo Boards in my shop (Raging Isle) shortly. For those in Hawaii with similar questions, these demos may be a simple way to get your questions answered
Just went to the FW web site and it appears that the Alternator is more your speed. There are 6’6 and 6’8 versions.
Too bad you cant see the rockers…that would nice for some to make more informed buying decisions. But then again, most buyers dont really know much in that dept.
I’d estimate that at 2.5 thick, its not going to bend like some of the Sunova pics weve seen here…and that may be good or not,
depending who’s riding it and in what. For a 200 pounder in HI juice, I bet that is just fine. Seems to me that the big benefit is durability (value) and flex memory over time…ie longer useful life. The flex/pop characteristics will vary from user to user…some will dig it big time, some will say “no big deal”.
Onward…
From some shapers I know that have seen them. I hear they are beautiful to look at.
Too bad you cant see the rockers…that would nice for some to make more informed buying decisions. But then again, most buyers dont really know much in that dept.
not meaning any disrespect when say this, but with the flex of the board, unless you are one of the compsand guys i think no one is going to know how these rockers handle.