Questions/Observations RE: Board Weight

General Discussion
21

There’s two parts to surfing:

1)paddling

2)riding waves

3)sitting on the board and bobbing around

Oh nuts, that was three (and I left out looking at wildlife in the water, checking out the wildlife on the beach, sipping coffee on the beach and discussing the finer points of surf tricks, making boards, etc.). Anyway, the third could shed some light on this debate. When you sit on your two boards, do you know a difference in how far you sink in the water? If there is a big difference in buoyancy, you should see a difference in how it floats you, and that is a lot simpler than quantifying the paddleability. If not, and if the rocker and all that are nearly identical (did you measure? did the shaper?) then it must be some other factor. My guess is that maybe the fin configuration is a little different. Slightly different cant, toe, fin size/shape, or something. That is just the uneducated guess of a guy who doesn’t count so good.

–Ben

22

Hi guys and Janklow,

I’m missing one thing in this discussion.

How do you catch a wave,

From sitting on the board,

Or from paddling into it,

Or from paddling sideways into it,

Or from paddling in the direction of the wave?

When you sit on the board, do you push the board down to get a push from the buoyancy of the board?

When you paddle into the wave, do you turn on the tail and let the buoyancy push you?

When you paddle into it sideways, do you let the wave push you sideways to get you planing?

When you paddle with it, do you wait till it lifts you feet up and the board starts sliding down the face?

Or do you paddle the board into planing on the flat water in front of the wave and stand up to steer into the wave and ride it?

Or should I rent a jetski with driver…

Planing is when the board gets over its bow wave and starts sliding down on its own wave.

So pushing the nose down to get over the bow wave is what gets you planing, thus making the wet area bigger.

Bottom surface in the water, also dynamically seen, makes a boards planing behavior.

The bigger the surface the easier it planes.

Surface is width and length.

Volume only comes in the equation when you also need paddling power.

If you make the bow wave come together with the wave you want to catch, it is possible to drop it.

This is the bow wave the superturtle makes (in the middle)

Hopping over the bow wave on a short board.

I stray a bit off topic but I think this is related.

A thing to ponder about,

Does flex help when you push the nose and flatten the rocker,

makes it come to planing easier.

Soul

23

Interesting observations s+p!

Good question re flex - you often see people push the end of their board downwards after a few paddles…I always thought it was the extra weight in the nose that helped here …maybe it’s also the rocker flattening as you say …hmmmmm

24
Quote:

Does flex help when you push the nose and flatten the rocker

Bodyboarders think so! They reverse rocker to get into waves.

(mind you, my boards have dents just under my chin from pushing down to get over the “hump”)

I think the tail lift idea comes into play here - less tail lift, easier to plane

Could it be that flattening the tail will help more with wave catching than flattening the intake?

25
Quote:

I think the tail lift idea comes into play here - less tail lift, easier to plane

Could it be that flattening the tail will help more with wave catching than flattening the intake?

I think the main thing is the size of the wet surface. A flat surface planes easiest.

To me it seems hard to flatten the tail and not the nose, unless the board is designed to do this.

Taking of is giving a hard push with your arms and giving a kick with your legs to get your body up and your feet under you.

This means tilting the board forward to get it over the bow wave and then getting it level again to plane.

The push from your feet landing on the board can be the last push the board needs to get going.

This is such a dynamic process depending totally on senses of the surfer.

The surfer adjusts his movements to the sensations of the board and wave.

When I am in the right position I don’t have to paddle to catch a wave,

Just stick in the tail and use the push from the flotation.

Then push my hands down hard and stand up.

The sensations from the board tell me if this works,

it is a split second decision.

Coming back to the comparison of the two boards, PU and EPS:

The lighter board will change direction faster, so it can pop into planing easier,

more floaty, less inertia.

Other explanation is the flex.

T-Roy can you compare the flex of both boards?

Also dynamically, I mean the return flex.

This could be a bigger diference between the two boards.

Hope there are more that will shed their light on this subject.

Maybe senor Burger has some time to spare?

Soul

26

Wow! I tuned out for a day or so and checked back in tonight to realize that I had launched my first “real” discussion.

It is interesting to read all of the ideas on this topic and makes me feel less dense that I can’t immediately explain the differences in the way the EPPS and PR boards get into waves.

To add some grist for the mill:

PU board - 6’10" X 20.5" X 2.875" - nose and tail same as EPS board

EPS board - 6’10" X 20.5" X 3" - nose and tail same as PU board.

Both boards are quads (if that matters). Noes is approximately 12.5" and tail is wide - say 14"+ on each board.

Rocker is nearly identical as is foil.

To answer another question asked - “p[addling into waves” means paddling from prone position and getting in - as early as possible - and popping to feet to ride standup.

If it matters, I am 38 yrs old, 6’1", 220 lbs (w/o wet suit) of which probably 205-210 lbs is “fighting trim” and the rest is excess baggage. Surfing 9 years, mostly in CA and Central America.

Please keep this thread going - it is very informative to me and apparently other folks find it interesting as well.

All the best.

T

27

Sorry to hog “my own” thread but I am really curious here and I just noticed Soulnpower’s question so I want to feed as much data as possible into the collective Swaylocks Super Computer -

EPS board is MUCH stiffer. To the point that it is taking a bit of adjusting and getting used to.

Is part of the solution to the wave catching mystery in the stiffness? When I briefly tried hotrodding for fun, frame flex was a huge factor in drag racing. When I briefly tried road biking, I noticed that frame flex was a huge factor in bike speed. In each case, energy lost to frame flex made a tremendous differnce over a long haul and even over a short sprint.

Is that part of the answer?

28

Stiffness must have something to do with it,

It makes it easier to get the tail level with the water when you put your weight on the nose.

When the tail is level the board will pop into plane.

The flexier board will just bend and the water will not let go of the tail.

Good point T-Roy

Soul

29

the reason the epoxy feels and works different is that it is…

Its lighter

stiffer

and it floats better

these 3 factors are why the board does what it does

nothing more and nothing less