I need some longboard expertise. I’ve made a few boards now, only shortboards, and want to shape a longboard. I’ve come up with the dimensions I want, 9’0 x 17 1/4" x 21" x 13 3/4" x 3". I’m going for a modern longboard. I more or less have come up with the dimensions for foiling of the blank, but I dont really have an idea for the rail foil. Any suggestions? Should I skin the blank (a Clark 9’1Y) to my desired thickness and then gently roll the deck and eyeball the rail thickness? I’m still a rookie shaper and like measuring everything. I appreciate any help.
–Ryan
I’m in the exact same situation and have been scouring the archives without any success thus far.
Please, please, help the rookies.
what bottom contours do you have in mind??
if you can get hold of james kinstle’s early 70’s book on making boards, he shows the use of rail templates in some depth.
i think there is some information in the archives regarding his book.
measuring is good.
It’s been discussed but is now buried and hard to find. Rail foil designs vary from board to board and from shaper to shaper. The width, depth and location of the bevel or tuck of the bottom part of rail will play a big part in how the board rides. The overall rail thickness, contour and foil will play a big part too. Everybody seems to have a different way of accomplishing their specific design once they’ve decided on what they want.
Here’s one way… certainly not the only way -
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Skin and plane thickness of blank.
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Trace outline.
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Cut and true outline so it’s at a 90 degree angle to bottom.
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Shape all bottom contours.
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Use a section of template to trace bottom bevel(s) of rail - i.e. where the tucked edge(s) will end. If you want a rounded bottom, 50/50 rail for example, these “edges” will be shaped in sequence and blended but it’s a starting point.
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Using a “fred” tool, sanding block, surform, planer, etc, shape the bottom part of rail.
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When you have the bottom side of rails finished, flip blank.
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Use a section of template to trace top bevels. The Kinstle book mentioned shows multiple bevels which are shaped in sequence, then blended.
(pgs 22-26 & 52-56 in PDF link below)
- A finish sanding and you’re ready to glass. Simple, eh?
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http://jfmillbiz.home.comcast.net/swaylocks/Surfboard_Design_and_Construction_1977.pdf
http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=164113;search_string=surfboard%20shaping%20and%20design%20kinstle;#164113
I want a good all around performer. I was thinking about putting in a slight concave in the nose, nothing too radical, and then having some vee in the last 18-24" out the tail. I was going to go with 50/50 rails with a progression into harder, tucked rails in the tail. I’m really just asking about this because this is my first longboard, so this is like a jumping off spot from me. I’m trying to do my homework a little so I dont end up with design elements fighting themselves. About the rail foil, I just wanted a rough guideline about how much foam I should remove so it isn’t too corky. This may seem quite simple to someone who has shaped hundreds of longboards, but as a rookie its important to me.
OK, here’s my take on this. I think what you are asking (without knowing it) is how far in do I need to shape my rail bands. (bevels)
The PDF already linked in a previous post has a good run down of what rail bands are (it calls them bevels) and also, if you pick up Shaping 101, John Carper will also give you a really good idea. Even though John Carper shapes a short board in Shaping 101, you’ll get a good idea for how to shape a board and in particular, shaping and blending rails into a board.
Once you have an understanding of rail bands / bevels, you’ll be able to work out the measurements for yourself based on what rails you want. For boxier rails, go for rail bands with less distance between them. For thinner boards, go for wider rail bands. John Carper used 2" and 4" deck markers for his rail bands in Shaping 101. I wanted more boxy rails for my fish so I got a cross section diagram of the rail I wanted and drew angled lines on it where the cut of the bands would be. That gave me the markers I needed for my bands. As I wanted boxier rails, I had 2" and 3" deck markers.
Shaping 101 will also give you a rundown on how to use a “Fred” for your tucked under edge… this tool is great and you can make one yourself using a surform blade. I made a variation of a Fred using sandpaper instead of a surform blade.
Check my website if you want to see my variation. Click on “Shaping” and scroll down to “The Tom”
I’m just a novice like you but I hope this helps as I found Shaping 101 to be a great help along with Swaylocks and www.surfersteve.com
-Cam
www.geocities.com/thefishexperiment
excellent advice the fish. using rail bands is very easy. and all though the shaping a longboard is different from shaping a shortboard, there are things that are comporable.
another good thing to do is go feel a bunch of boards, thats what i do when i have foil and rail questions
Thats good advice too turbo… I think it was you who said to me when I was starting out “Use your hands a lot”.
When I shaped my fish, I was always using my hands especially around the rails. Riding many boards over the years, you get a good feel for rails and how you like them. As I was getting closer and closer with the rails, I’d just keep using my hands to feel if they were getting close to how I wanted them. You can use templates to measure if you want to be precise, but in the end you should rely on your senses… eyes and hands in particular 
on using the Fred tool, how much should be cut off the bottom on each of the 2 different 30-degree angle passes? i realize that there will be variation to this, but i feel like i cut too much off with just one pass on each angle. maybe only making one pass with the wood part of the tool rubbing on the bottom of the board (as opposed to rubbing on the rail) would not give such an extreme tuck?
on making rail band marks, i tried using john carper’s measurements for the marks on the sides of the rails (i think he said 1-1/4" or 1-3/8" up from the bottom for a thicker board, and 1" at the tail). i ended up with some kinda funky looking knifey rails. it’ll probably trim like a pro but turning may be an issue especially in small surf. do i just need to move that measurement up from the bottom more, like closer to 2"? after all JC was shaping a potato chip. i’m attempting to get a retro fish to look right. thanks
Good question. I’ve got a good idea how to use fred but not much idea on how much to take off. Finished shaping a minimal last night (4th recently) and i am only going on instinct as to how much needs to be taken off the rails. However the part i am having the most trouble with is the rail bands near the nose of the board. When using the planer i find i cannot get up here as the cutting blade lifts off the deck of the blank due to curvature. Does anyone else suffer this problem? Is it my lack of experience or the planer i am using (cheapy bosch planer), in 101 JC makes this part look so easy with the skil but i just can’t do it anywhere near as smoothly and it takes me quite a few passes with the planer to get there.
Change how you use the, use the plainer at an angle rather that inline with the rail edge.