Herb, you’re “stirrin’ the pot” again! I just happened to read that on Harbour’s site today. Who exactly is Harbour talking about…someone you know? I guess he’s a little ticked over the idea of some of us “underground surfboard builders” getting paid for what we do and not having a legitimate business that pays taxes. We’re not pullin’ down the big clams like him. Harbour should have no worries of the underground competition.
OK, I get it now. Herb, you were busy posting on Harbour’s site since I last visited. It seems like a big misunderstanding. At least Mr. Harbour wasn’t directing all of his fury at you; but he is sending lots of it towards this site.
…I’ve removed myself for his discussion board for now,maybe forever.Actually all this battering around just plain hurts,hurts everyone.Herb
Herb, I took your advice… just spent the last hour or so reading through “Harbour Surf Talk”. I rarely spend any time there anymore, and cant remember the last time I did. No criticism of that forum, but its been obvious to me that “Surf Talk” is not really “open”. I can respect that, because after all… its Rich Harbours website! Thankfully, the combination of knowledge, inspiration, helpful diversity and overall feeling of “aloha” to be found in Michael Palers Swaylocks Surfboard Design Forum, is a phenomenon on the internet... and a singular one, I should add. If you doubt that fact, just try posting frequent messages/photos about surfmats in other similar forums! Its also clear that within “Harbour Surf Talk” the “underground movement” is often targeted with less than positive words. Yet, its ironically one of the rich golden veins of inspiration running deep through Swaylocks. BTW, this humble beginning sounds suspiciously like the "underground movement": "... Since 1959, when Rich Harbour went into his parents' garage with a saw and a piece of foam, Harbour has crafted more than 23,000 surfboards and counting. ... It was the year 1959 when Rich Harbour's used longboard was stolen from his garage. Devastated over the loss of his surfboard, Harbour ventured out to build his own. He bought a blank and cut it in half with a handsaw. Using a piece of redwood, and huge rubber bands cut from an inner tube, he glued the stringer into the blank. Rich shaped the board with a hand plane and sandpaper. Being the star pupil in his high school woodshop class and the best surfboard repairman in town gave him the confidence to do this. He glassed it and the results produced a board that wasn't bad for a sixteen-year-old junior in high school. However, it received too many snickers from the local crowd at the beach. Boards numbers 2 and 3 were soon made and were a vast improvement. ... It wasn't long before many of the locals were asking Rich Harbour to make them a surfboard. The boards kept getting better and better. By the end of the next year, a Seal Beach surfer named Denney Buell, who had graced the pages of the very first Surfer Magazine, asked Rich to shape him a board. Rich's ability to make great surfboards, and this vote of confidence from a top notch surfer, really got things moving. On March 7, 1962 Rich moved from the garage to open Harbour Surfboards..." (excerpt from <a href="http://www.harboursurfshop.com/history.html">www.harboursurfshop.com/history.html</a>) Anyway Herb... its not difficult for me to see why youre welcomed here as free-thinking designer/shaper/inventor, but regarded as an irritating square peg in a round hole there. Hey, its "Harbour Surf Talk"s loss! You just need a bigger sandbox to play in... be cool and dont ever stop sharing. We love you! Dale
from the little time i have been reading this board Herb has been one of the funniest and most inspirational people on the site(not to mention knowledgable)From the moment i read about Herb rescuing buggie (kid that glassed insects ino his board by accident and got confronted by some kooky locals) he has really shown the aloha spirit and is keapin the stoke alive!! Don’t go we nead people like you here Herb!
Things never seem to change.“backyard Builders” have always been a thorn in the side of the big guys.I can remember when the short board revolution was driven by small builders.The big guys missed the boat and a lot of them folded…they had thousands of longboards in inventory that they could not sell.The next revolution may very well come from somebody hanging around Swaylocks.Years ago there was a move by the big guys to pressure Clark Foam to quit selling to underground guys…it did not work.Rich Harbour is a great craftsman and he is entitled to his opinion.He makes a valid point but it won’t change a thing.The only way the big guys will rule is to come up with something truly unique and revolutionary that cant be duplicated in a garage.Just an opinion with all due respect. R. B.
Herb, You shouldn’t remove yourself from his board. A lot of people would agree with Bob when he said “As for Herb, he is a very generous guy that I truly admire”. I wouldn’t call it battering just differences of opinion, makes for an entertaining read. Stephen
Herb, Dale has the take on this issue. Commercial surfboard manufacturer sites have no obligation to provide open forums. The fact that Harbour has a site doesn’t mean he plans to let anybody say whatever they want. From the start of the site Harbour has made it plain that he plans to control what people say there. Because of this, I’ve only visited a few times. I’ve never posted there. And don’t put Harbour’s owner up as some sort of representative of the surfing, or board building community. You come way closer to representing surf stoke than Harbour. DHP resin is an exciting new innovation only if you view it from a poly-foam entrenchment perspective. DHP is almost as good as epoxy, and provides a sounding board for the laissez-faire board makers to talk down epoxy/EPS innovation. Just like the more expensive DHP resin, you can use epoxy on PU blanks, but why would you? EPS is a better substrate. You seem to be expecting some level of fairness from Harbour’s owner. If you wanna post on the Harbour site, go ahead. But don’t expect anything resembling fair treatment. -Noodle
From the very beginning Harbour has been up front with the rules of engagement for his discussion forum. Herb, you know his criteria better than anyone. So, what’s the beef?
Herb, I dont think you could remove yourself from this forum even if u wanted to. Its in your blood. FD
Is Rich talking about Jim Phillips maybe?
…Got some waves today,not blowout for a change. …got a few nice covers,lite crowd. …I feel better now. …It is true,“everything does desolve in saltwater”. …I’m not going anywhere,just taking a stretch. …AND ALL I CAN SAY RIGHT NOW!!! …THANK GOD FOR SURF!!!herb
Herb, Surfboards have been and always will be a cottage industry. As people grow from their garage to a high overhead operation they loose sight of the big picture. We also all have our own agenda’s. For instance Greg L. does what he can to promote epoxy. Yes he is passionate about the issue, but it is still his agenda. A guy like Rich Harbour’s agenda is obvious to protect his business, which he thinks is under attack from the backyard “underground”. It does suck if you pay taxes and someone else doesn’t. That pisses me off too. I guess that’s why places like Foam EZ can charge you tax. Also, Rich does have a food point about how much backyard guys charge for boards. Heck, a quality “backyard” board is generally a very custom product. In a lot of cases the glass jobs are of better quality because more time is taken on them. You guys do under sale your product. It’s one thing making a board for your brother, but on the other hand… When you look at it, Rich is probably more in danger of pop outs than the backyard shaper. Since he lost Roger Hinds, I doubt he can do as many custom boards as before. His business plan relies more on proven models, like the Surftech business model. You are more likely to find a customer that buys a board off a rack buying a Surftech than a custom board. Cleanlines brings up a good point about Clark Foam. Nobody understands the importance more than Mr. Clark of the small time builder. 30 years ago, the day Hansen and G&S decided to make their own blanks was the same day Mr. Clark called Mitch. He isn’t the type of guy to get burned twice. Everything about their system is set up to quickly and efficiently make one off custom blanks. He obviously knows that the future of the US industry is with “custom” surfboards. I thank God the surfboard business is a cottage industry, it keeps the Soul in the sport. Sluggo
I hear 'ya Herb. It has been a sporadic season down here. March and April usually deliver more than we have had for surf. Finally we got the swell of the year, a week long blow with some good surf, day after day of it. My son and I with another Dad and his son hit late Friday and through the weekend. Only one problem with this, I want more! Cheers. Tom S. http://www.spadre.com/expressionsession.htm
Sheesh Tom, it was NEVER that good when I lived in Texas! A few hurricane swells, yes, but you guys got it good.