I just bought a surfboar. Upon careful inspection (unfortunately after I bought the board), i noticed that the bases of the two front fins (the part that goes through the board and attaches the fins to the board) are “floating”. What I mean by floating is that there is a ~ 1cm gap between the outside edge of the base and the inside edge of the hole in the foam. This gap is filled with resin, and I can see through the gap if I hold the board up to a light.
I am wondering if this is a weak setup and I got ripped off. I have never owned a board with redex fins so I’m not sure, but I imagine that there should not be a gap, and that the gap will lead to a blown out fin or blown rail sometime in the near future. Is this the case, or is the setup solid?
If i did get ripped off, I am wondering if there is a simple fix, a way that I can modify the board to make the fins more stable.
Best way to check if the fin is solid is to flex it with your thumb and two fingers…you figure out the exact grip. If it can handle that amount of flex, you are fine in the surf.
All foam must be covered with resin or mix of resin and glass.
I couldn’t figure your exact problem (I’m dyslecsic), but I suspect you have a gap between the surface of the bottom of the board and the base of the fin. Kelp catcher, but that’s all.
If I understand you correctly, the box is installed correctly.
You said " there is a ~1cm transparent border of resin
around each fin box". The installation is designed such that the boxes are mounted in laminating resin mixed with milled fibers. FCS uses a similar method except ours goes through the deck and theirs just touches the deck. A couple questions for you. Have you ever felt foam? How would you get any strength from the foam? Fiberglass and resin are the structural shell that mounts everything on a surfboard. With a sufficient schedule of laminate this method is stronger than any other method of installing fins to surfboards on the market today.
Why is just about every board white with a clear resin? Why does people on this forum complain about templates that don’t look nice without regards of it’s performance? Why are there so many post here on swaylocks about the cosmetics of surfboards?
I doubt that a little bit of white pigment would compromise the strength that much tho’, but what do I know?
You're confusing me. First you complain about so many clear white boards (which are not cosmetically optimized like say acid tints and air brushes). Then you complain about lack of appreciation for templates that preform that perform but are not cosmetically appealling. Then you complain about so many post being about cosmetics. And finally, when I respond to a post about whether the structural integrity of a box mounted in fiber filled resin and not being personally concerned about cosmetics, you bitch again.
No, a little white pigment does not ruin the structural integrity of the resin it’s used in. But, it does compromise it to a small degree. So, mounting a set of boxes with laminating resin and milled fibers in a sufficient laminate schedule is infact stronger than the same set up with pigment.
Haavard…I’m the guy who critizes the lines of a template posted on the internet.
The reason is that the picture is one that draws “ooohs, and aaahs”, like its such a great work of art. So I point out that the curve is flawed, I don’t mention anything about how the board works, just that the curves are not even.
Maybe doing so will force McCoy or Paul Jensen to look closer at their craft, and come up with BETTER boards for you and I.
I truly believe the function is more important than the looks, but since function is a given, the looks HAVE to be at least smooth and symetrical, otherwise a 12 year old can get lucky and make what YOU consider a great board…one that works fine, but looks as bad as the McCoys and Paul Jensen’s funboard and fishes.
Note to supporters of McCoys, Paul Jensens, and any other boards I have critized. FOR SURE, they make much much better boards than I can ever hope to make. I’m just trying to make you guys BETTER for the future!! Nothing wrong with improvements, as you know, if you are satisfied with your current status, you are going nowhere fast!
Most surfers don’t want to pay too much for a board, which is a good reason for just glassing an unsprayed white blank.
Generally a board with a strange outline template will perform a little strange, unless the designer has specifically designed it that way for certain surfing characteristics.
And so many people are concerned about cosmetics because they like their surfboards to not only perform well, but also look good at the same time.
I think you will eventually learn over time, that sadly, surfers are some of the most quietly egotistical people you will ever meet, me included. In many ways I don’t blame them, because I know how incredibly unique and complex the surfing and boardmaking experience is and how much effect it has on our average lives.
Tom, I’m sorry, I was just playing the devil’s advocate or something along those lines. I truly believe that the strongest(best?) materials and construction are not being used in surfboards due partly to apperance(in addition to labor/cost). Still, I understand that looks sell. If you’re using a tad of pigment in the setting of the box, the uneducated customer is still getting a stronger box then quite a few of the competions and he has no reasons not to buy your system. Bdw. How much does pigment weaken the epoxy matrix? Is it linear to the amount of pigment used?
LeeDD: What if we’re totally missing out on the best surfboard designs because we’re discarding ‘ugly’ looking boards. Compared to the old WW2 planes IMHO the new stealth fighters look like shit, but you’d be a fool to consider the WW2 planes as best for most purposes those planes are designed for. Maybe the McCoys or even the FP perform better, even if there are straight spots in the outline(that I honestly don’t see) or it just plain look strange. I’ve seen a few surfers on McCoy Nuggets and they were ripping. If a flat spot in the outline will get you there, why not?
I be honest I have never seen the statistics. But, I do know that pigment and it's carrier are not superior in bonding strength to the base resins they are put in. Consequently, it's reasonable to say the more pigment the weaker the matrix.
There is NEVER a good reason to put a straight spot on a template.
Convenience is the closest, since he has to make a template for each size he makes a board for. Some of them are very well proportionately curved, some have pronounced straight spots. We’re talking Nuggets, of different sizes.
YOU might not be able to see the flaws, but YOU are not a template maker of at least 50, and shaper of 500 boards.
If you were, you would see the flaw in the outline template.
I was also the pinstriper of those above boards, so I can see curves pretty accurately.
Once again… I am NOT knocking the board’s abliity to work very well, in fact, I don’t say anything about it’s function. I’m merely suggestion that he needs to clean up his templates a little, to move on to the next astral plane.
I agree with you to a point. I don’t like to see straight spots either, but I do know that when I first started shaping and making templates, probably my 5th or 6th board (6’2"), it ended up with this pretty flat looking curve for about a foot of the rail line, just forward of the fins. That board sure rode nice!
I don’t think it is wise to to say “never” a good idea for a straight line. You never know.
The air plane issue that was brought up in an earlier post is interesting:
I loved the older WWII airplanes. Not many straight lines on those. Today’s stealth planes - lots of straight lines, but fast. I am no pilot, but to me, those WWII planes would seem to be more maneuverable in a tight quarter, slower speed dog fight. Slower, less sophisticated weapons, but more maneuverable. Stealth planes, however very fast. Just kind of interesting when you think about it.
I agree with you to a point. I don’t like to see straight spots either, but I do know that when I first started shaping and making templates, probably my 5th or 6th board (6’2"), it ended up with this pretty flat looking curve for about a foot of the rail line, just forward of the fins. That board sure rode nice!
I don’t think it is wise to to say “never” a good idea for a straight line. You never know.
The air plane issue that was brought up in an earlier post is interesting:
I loved the older WWII airplanes. Not many straight lines on those. Today’s stealth planes - lots of straight lines, but fast. I am no pilot, but to me, those WWII planes would seem to be more maneuverable in a tight quarter, slower speed dog fight. Slower, less sophisticated weapons, but more maneuverable. Stealth planes, however very fast. Just kind of interesting when you think about it.
GMAN
The straight lines on the F-117 are there because the software of the time couldnt compute the radar reflectivity of a curved surface. The Next gen of the software could thus the B2stealth bomber. Also the shape of the 117 makes it inherintly unstable and is controlled via computer to maintain stablity. The 117 is also quite slow and in not capable of even mach 1.
This subject has sort of gone way off track, so I’ll join in too, why not.
As well as radar deflection, the shape of the stealth planes also has a lot to do with the speeds it flies at. I used to have a fixation with spitfires…a model when I was about seven. Show me a modern plane, with the relative dimensions and speed of a spitfire, and I’ll bet the modern one blows it out of the water, so to speak. And I’ll bet it has more than it’s share of straight lines, particularly on it’s working surfaces.
So there are no straight lines on the B2 then? Hmmmm… I think just about any fighterplane these days are so voilatile that it requires a computer just to be stable. I wish I could go that route with my surfboards - ultrasonic computer controlled surfboard. But I digress. My point is, if someone showed you a picture of a stealth fighter/bomber some 50(or even 20…) years ago and told you this thing flies, you would laugh in their face. And still, we’re using the technology that was available almost(?) 50 years ago in our surfboards, with very little change in shapes.
YF-23 has a mixture of straight outline wings and curved profile sections, with a hex shaped body.
B-1 is indeed all curves.
SR-71, it’s predessor, was straighter lines.
OK, that only applies to powered craft.
Once again, you equate my comments about the straight spot with actual surfboard performance. I did NOT mention performance at all! Only a flawed template, has nothing to do with performance.
Wait next year, Geoff will have it straightened out…he will clean up the straight spot.
YF-23 has a mixture of straight outline wings and curved profile sections, with a hex shaped body.
B-1 is indeed all curves.
SR-71, it’s predessor, was straighter lines.
OK, that only applies to powered craft.
Once again, you equate my comments about the straight spot with actual surfboard performance. I did NOT mention performance at all! Only a flawed template, has nothing to do with performance.
Wait next year, Geoff will have it straightened out…he will clean up the straight spot.
An ugly duck shaped by GOD is still an ugly duck.
YF-23= classified specifications but guaranteed to be superior to anything flying today
SR-71 = designed to fly at mach ?classified? =very very very fast amazing that it was designed in the 50s
I agree, Geoff is a great shaper and knows what hes doing. He just has always done something different out of the main stream. I have ridden several of his boards in the past and they work and are extremely forgiving in the power sections of the wave but those boards arent my style.
“There is NEVER a good reason to put a straight spot on a template.”
Wow… LeeDD has become the guru of template design now, isn’t that wonderful?
“YOU might not be able to see the flaws, but YOU are not a template maker of at least 50, and shaper of 500 boards.”
And after only 500 boards and 50 templates? I wonder if that makes McCoy a super-duper template guru… I mean, I am sure that he has shaped many more than a piddly 500 boards?
“I’m merely suggestion that he needs to clean up his templates a little, to move on to the next astral plane.”
…Wow. That was incredible. Bravo! that was one of the most ignorant posts I have ever seen on swaylocks. -Carl