7.3 Rawson quad gun. Looks like every other beautiful Rawson gun, execpt with an extra fin. Surf has been crap here lately, so I’ve been getting used to her in some 3 -4 foot overhead windswell surf. Really, really good board. EPS 1.9#, 4+4 bottom, 6+6 deck. 8lbs with 4 lokboxes and fins. One thing that distinguishes this, and all my other relatively conventional looking boards is the absence of concave. I’ve been getting rolled bottoms on everything from 5.10 up and paired with a properly configured quad setup and, of course the correct rocker, etc, these boards are faster, more responsive, more forgiving and hold better than any concave thruster I’ve owned. They grovel and work great at OTW, as well. What’s more, you can surf them as tight and radical as an scooped out POS I’ve ever ridden. Down with concaves. They era of the concave has, for me, come to an end.
You exhibit a very solid understanding of the merit of concaves. My compliments.
can you post pix as an example of rolled bottoms? or of the rawson gun’s bottom? I heard Mccoy has had great reviews on his take on rolled bottoms . . . thanks . . .
interesting insight. I wonder if concaves are better for smaller waves (like in So Cal).
In one of the Bert / Greg discussions I remember concaves were put in shortboards because of a flex issue related to pu/pe when you go rail to rail, the concave actually flattens out, whereas a flat bottom will bow out . . .
Bill THRAILKILL please correct me if I am wrong, but in my book concaves are devices to CREATE speed. Guns are much more about CONTROLLING speed. Thus, it’s no wonder if slightly rolled bottoms feel at home in some size. Besides, rolled or V-bottoms “cut” through chop when concaves tend to “ricochet” upon it.
Wait ‘til this summer when 3-4’ overhead windchop seems like a distant memory and you find yourself looking forward to the next tired 2-3’ ground swell that traveled about a million miles to get to your local break. You’re old concaves won’t look so bad then.
Balsa,
‘’…in my book concaves are devices to CREATE speed.‘’ Create speed? Huh? How? Contrary to the popular, near religious belief in concaves, a concave is a drag surface. If you seek speed, go with a flat surface. There are a number of ways to milk speed out of a surfboard, but a concave is not one of them. Bammbamm808 has it right.
‘‘I WAS there yesterday.’’
a concave is a drag surface.
All surfboard bottoms produce lift and drag. . including concaves. . . saying that concave bottoms are “a drag surface” without mentioning the fact that they create lift is misleading.
Isn’t it the case that concave planing hulls can have a superior lift/drag ratio to convex hulls ?
Bill, do you agree that a flat rocker is faster than a very curvy one? Putting some concave in a basically curvy rocker will flatten the bottom rocker while maintaining the curve in the rails and make the board faster (going straight, that is). Am I wrong on that?
…flat rocker faster than a very curvy one? YES. Putting some concave in a basically curvy rocker WILL straighten the centerline of the rocker, but not flatten the planing surface, which is how speed is generated. One feature is not isolated from the others. Rocker, planshape, and surface treatment, all interact with each other. The trick is to balance those elements to extract the maximum performance that you seek.
Wait ‘til this summer when 3-4’ overhead windchop seems like a distant memory and you find yourself looking forward to the next tired 2-3’ ground swell that traveled about a million miles to get to your local break. You’re old concaves won’t look so bad then.
That’s what his local break is…A wind swell magnet. All year long.
One feature is not isolated from the others. Rocker, planshape, and surface treatment, all interact with each other. The trick is to balance those elements to extract the maximum performance that you seek.
Exactly Bill, … . . so there’s no simple answer to the concave controversy. . . it all depends where you put it and what you put it on.
My bet is that those who like concave will get good results from it, and those who don’t (like yourself), won’t.
.
For once I agree with you, loony bird.
Bill THRAILKILL please correct me if I am wrong, but in my book concaves are devices to CREATE speed. Guns are much more about CONTROLLING speed. Thus, it’s no wonder if slightly rolled bottoms feel at home in some size. Besides, rolled or V-bottoms “cut” through chop when concaves tend to “ricochet” upon it.
Well, yes and no. It all depends on how it’s done. My little rolled boards haul ass in very small, weak surf. Which was a suprise to me, but there it is. Of couse, the rocker and other things are quite different than on my concave thrusters, but the surfing they allow me to do is the same or better, and isn’t that the point? I just want a board that will go where I want to go on the wave, with a minimum of interference from the board itself. I’ve had to re-evaluate what I think I know about surfboards based on how these things ride. I’m starting to understand how they do what they do, and that the basic design will work in and size/type of surf if configured correctly. I’m also becoming aware of all the disadvantages that concaves come with, and that you can pretty much achieve everything a concave does for you by other, less costly means. And bear in mind, I was not a believer until I tried one of these boards.
Balsa,
‘’…in my book concaves are devices to CREATE speed.‘’ Create speed? Huh? How? Contrary to the popular, near religious belief in concaves, a concave is a drag surface. If you seek speed, go with a flat surface. There are a number of ways to milk speed out of a surfboard, but a concave is not one of them. Bammbamm808 has it right.
‘‘I WAS there yesterday.’’
Perhaps you need to reread my post-- Off-The-Wall? My point being that they are working for me in ALL types of surf, windchop and barfing Hawaiian barrels.
Oh BTW, I just realized, I have inadverdantly started a bitchy-shitfight thread on swaylocks. My life now has meaning. I think I’m getting a hard on.
Hey bammbamm808
Post some pics. Let’s move this up a gear from shitfight to shitstorm.
Antman
I think I'm getting a hard on
I just did a google search for hard on and this is what I get, mate, no photos to go either. What a disappointment. Post photos next time.
Quote:I think I’m getting a hard on
I just did a google search for hard on and this is what I get, mate, no photos to go either. What a disappointment. Post photos next time.
LOL!!! Perfect.
…flat rocker faster than a very curvy one? YES. Putting some concave in a basically curvy rocker WILL straighten the centerline of the rocker, but not flatten the planing surface, which is how speed is generated. One feature is not isolated from the others. Rocker, planshape, and surface treatment, all interact with each other. The trick is to balance those elements to extract the maximum performance that you seek.
Let’s put it another way: the more contact points with the water, the more friction there is and the more friction = the less speed. As long as you’re lying on your board, not moving, the only forces in play are your weight and your board’s buoyancy, these two forces more or less counter-balancing each other. For ease of explanation, let’s say that the buoyancy line of the board is in the middle of the rail/board thickness. When you start paddling (and even more when the wave starts pushing you along) your weight’s force tends to decrease and your board’s buoyancy increases, thus also decreasing the contact points with water. The buoyancy line, from middle of the rail, progressively goes to the lowest contact points, i.e. the “bottom” of the board. If the bottom shape is flat, the wetted surface will be that of the part of the bottom in contact with the wave. If the bottom is a convex shape (rolled or V), more wetted surface (even if slight). If the bottom is concave, the board will tend to ride on its rails alone, just like a catamaran. This translates to much less contact points, less friction, more speed.
BUT a full concave bottom will be very difficult to turn as there is no pivot point to help pushing one rail into the water and there is no point in going very fast in a straight line and then stopping because you are far ahead of the wave and nothing pushes you anymore… On the opposite, a rolled bottom is a very unstable shape that will very easily rock from one rail to the other and make for its inherent “slower” speed by its ability to stay in the fastest parts of the wave.
And I don’t want to start a fight either… All of us agree that the ultimate board comes from the ability to match together opposite theories to make them work in the same direction. And I’m far from being a concave fan. Just the opposite, in fact. Also, it’s quite different if you talk about a single-fin, thruster or other fins set-up: single-fins have some inherent speed while thrusters need to be pushed and “pumped” to create speed…
Concaves again!..Interesting to hear such strong views… as I feel it…the benefits are in response time…ie I feel that the board doesn’t go faster but does respond to a turning force more quickly…or am I just imagining this?