Has anyone ever done this? I was told by one person it is possible and told by another it wasn’t possible because removing the fcs plugs would damage the board so bad it would be pointless.
Any ideas? Thanks!
I think it’s possible, but it won’t be very nice.
Why do you want to use the speed fins on this board instead of test this system on your next board.
Anyway, i think a router will help you to remove the old FCS plugs, then you have to fill the holes and install the new system… it doesn’t sounds so good for me.
Good waves!
FCS plugs are easily removed from the board without causeing any major damage to the board. Even hitting a rock with your fin will remove the fcs plugs without causing much damage to the rest of the board(except from maybe a little bit of foam crushing).
The easiest would be to route away the the fcs plugs, then glass over them then route room for the new box. That is unless the new box will cover both fcs plugs in which case I would just route out the room for the new box.
Unless you use a sledgehammer to wack the fcsplugs out I don’t really see how removing the fcs plugs would cause any harm to your board.
regards,
Håvard
The board I just got has Speeds and I really like them, had one shaped with FCS and a board shaped as close to that one with Speeeds and the board with the Speeeds rides a hell of alot better than the FCS one.
So now I have an older board with FCS on that I would like to put Speeeds on was curious how feasible it was to take the FCS out of it and put Speeeds on.
depends a lot on how you go about removing the FCS plugs. When I have to replace them ( when somebody strips out a thread for instance) I use a hole saw, 1" diameter with the pilot drill set barely ahead of the saw teeth and something in the tab hole/slot of the FCS plug to guide that pilot drill. A smaller pilot hole done in that filler piece will make your life a lot easier.
As I just happened to have one within arm’s reach…
Note that the distance between the side depth-setting tabs and the bottom of the plug is 5/8", so it’s very unlikely that yours will be any deeper. Mark or otherwise ( tape around it) your hole saw so you don’t overdo it when you go in. Drill, remove your filler/pilot piece and use a big screwdriver to give the slot in the plug a twist, it should come away from the foam nicely. Your filler/pilot piece can be used for the other plugs as well. You don’t need to fill anything until after you have routed out for the new fin system.
hope that’s of use
doc…
Thanks Doc! That’s what I was looking for!
What would you suggest for a pilot peice? I have some lexan I could probably use, just have to measure a tab and cut the lexan down to the right size, I’m assuming?
Will the plug seperate easily from the deck half of the resin used to set the plugs, (the deck side of the H formed by the resin around the plug)?
I have a beater board under the shed I’m gonna try this out on, thanks Doc!
Edit: I have access to some Lexan here at work, but I don’t have a fin with me to measure the tab thickness, wouldn’t happen to know it off hand would you?
I’ve never tried it Doc’s way… but Doc certainly seems to know repairs. That said, it seems that if the FCS plug was properly installed (H Pattern), it’s not going to come out so cleanly.
I’ve used a “bore bit”. That’s what I call them anyway. Last time we talked about that Doc came up with the real name… and provided a picture. The bore bit will pretty much just grind away the plug clean.
Are those the hole saws with concentric hole saws inward?
Or are you talking about a spade bit?
Routers work great on FCS plugs. They also work great on fin boxes too. Just make sure that your router bit is sharp, and that you remember to remove that little allen screw. (Yeah… I’ve left it in there before, it’s not that neat.) Any way, If the board is just a beater, and you don’t care what it’s gunna look like when you are done, don’t bother with taking out all the FCS plugs, just leave them in and rout out the holes for the Speedfins as if the FCS plugs weren’t even there. Then install them normally. I think that you will only have one FCS plug in each side to deal with, just pretend it’s not even there! Remember to remove those allen screws!!! -Carl
thanks to Doc there are pictures of both hole saws and forstner bits in the glossary
http://www.swaylocks.com/glossary/index.cgi?hole_saw
http://www.swaylocks.com/glossary/index.cgi?forstner_bit
routers too…
Hey, Riley,
Let’s see, in no particular order -
The plugs are generally set in some resin or hot glue that in turn soaks into the foam a little - twisting the plug shears that away nicely from the underlying foam - you lose maybe 1/16-1/8" of foam that stays stuck to the plug and goo. Unless they were set in cloth all the way around by a Plug Strength Nazi like me. Either way, your hole saw will cut it free.
Having found my dial calipers ( look all over the place and the damned things were on the shelf in front of me, in their box, under a book - that figures ) , I make the FCS slot 0.258" by 1.002" by 0.606" deep, so 1" x 1/4" x 0.6" deep blanks of plexi or lexan should be ideal. The pilot drill in my 1" Milwaukee hole saw is 0.219 or so diameter ( letter or number size maybe?? - awfully close to 1/4" width anyhow ) but as I recall you have a machine shop available, layout tools and a drill press, so if you make up your blanks as above, center the mark on the top face of the tab blank ( the plug is symmetrical around the slot, side-side and front-back, scribe corner to diagonal corner will be good enough) and go with a 1/8" pilot hole you should be fine, especially if your pilot drill in the hole saw is a different diameter than mine, different make or something.
It’s really to keep the hole saw from jumping as you start, once you’re in a skosh the cylinder body of the saw wants to follow the side of the plug anyways so unless you’re way off on the angle you’re drilling at ( check to see that there are no initial low or high spots when you just start your cut, that your hole saw teeth are cutting all the same depth all around the circle. ) then you just go on in to your depth mark and pull back out.
A little wax or machine oil or silicone spray lube or way lube or something like that on the inside of the hole saw cylinder makes life easier if the plug breaks loose while drilling, otherwise they can be a beeyotch to get out of the hole saw. They get in a little bit cocked and they are a serious pain to remove. The lube helps with that too, less friction against the cylinder insides so it’s less likely to break loose on you.
If you have a piece of 7/8 x 1/4 aluminum bar stock kicking around the scrap bin, that’s your twist-out tool right there, either bent 90 degrees if it’s long enough or put some healthy pliers to a short piece. I write this, realising I have had some here for quite a while and ( being an idiot) I’ve used a big slotted screwdriver all along. Duuuh.
Anyhow, that should get you going, and if you use that old beater to practice one or two you’ll be fine.
Hope that’s of use
doc…
http://surfsource.net/Ding%20Repair%20Guide/index.html has info on how to remove a (broken) fcs plug. Basically make a jig by drilling a hole is some plywood or something, tape the jig down with the hole over the plug and the jig with keep the holesaw from messing around.
regards,
Håvard
Howzit riley, If you or a friend has the FCS inatall kit they include a jig for removing plugs. It's a 1/4 " thick piece of wood with (2) 1 1/8 holes spaced 7/8 " apart. The holes in the jig should match up with the plugs in the board, hot glue the jig over the plugs and use a 1 1/8" hole saw. You don't need the pilot drill since the hole saw will cut around the plugs with the jig. I use the hole saw that comes with the install kit. If you use the same hole saw that comes with the kit it won't go as deep as the plug because of the 1/4 " thick jig , so after you bottom out you need to remove the jig and drill a 1/4' deeper. Then use a big screw driver in the slot to twist the plug and it shoul come out cleanlly. It 's easy to make the jig by drilling 2 holes with a 1 1/8' hole saw 7/8" apart. Aloha, Kokua
A one inch hole saw does the trick. It’s a more controlled operation to just remove the plug, than to have the potential for colateral damage attempting to rout it out. If you must rout it, use a plunge-router. Docs’ surgical approach is the way to go on this one. McDing
Thanks for the tips everyone.
I was thinking last night about how to keep the drill straight when taking the hole saw to the plug, I was actually thinking how in the hell am I going to get a board up by my drill press, lol. The plywood jig is going to be alot easier!
Looks like I have everything to do it right thanks to you all!
Howzit riley, By all means a wood jig is the way to go , but you don’t need 1/2" plywood. The jig that comes with FCS install kit is made of 1/4" wood. Aloha, Kokua
For what it’s worth -
start your pilot drill hole, even a turn or two by hand, and when that goes in just a touch you’ll be at a point where all the teeth on the hole saw are just touching. Move your drill alignment/angle until they are. That’s 90 degrees or close enough.
Alternative B, with the pilot drill just set into the pilot hole a bit, use a small square set on the bottom of the board on the side and against the side of the hole saw, get that right and parallell, then do the same on the front or back side of the hole saw. That’s also close enough to 90.
I tend to drill in as straight as I can, by eyeball and practice and holding those 90 angles as best I can, by the time you’re in 1/4" or so you have a nice round saw kerf that’ll guide it nicely straight and in the same path the rest of the depth you’ll need. Hole saws are cool like that, unlike Forstner bits and most other drill bits. They have that deep cylinder wall, the teeth and nothing else to widen or otherwise let your hole stray from the straight and narrow.
hope that’s of use
doc…
We use a mix of Doc’s and Kokua’s methods: we take a scrap piece of template (1/8") material and saw a 1" dia. hole. We double-sticky tape this wood guide over the offending plug and use the hole saw with the piilot drill removed. Plugs almost always bust out clean; only had one case where part of the deck came out with the plug but it wasn’t my board…
Curious to see what your noticible performance differences are since you are using a common baseline board…
Tried it out last night, came out clean as a whistle. I didn’t have a hole saw with a small enough pilot drill bit to guide into a the 1/4" slot filler so I just winged it with a 1/2" plywood template taped onto the board.
It almost seemed like I should have used a 1-1/16" hole saw, thinking it might get around the plug instead of scraping off the outer diameter of the plug, or is that what you want to do?
Now to get another install kit for the speeeds, as I gave mine to the shaper that did my last board, DOH!
Thanks again Doc and everyone!
Howzit riley, the hole saw that comes in the FCS install kit is a 1 1/8". This size will take out the filler around the plug which is what you want to do any way, other wise how are you going to set the new plugs. Aloha, Kokua