Does anyone have an opinion concerning free trade agreements such as NAFTA, CAFTA, or the WTO and their affects on domestic surfboard manufacturing? It seems that there is some concern out there about boards being made cheaper overseas due to a lack of environmental regulations and labor standards. I guess a first question would be, are overseas manufacturers abiding to ILO standards? ILO being the International Labor Organization. It is well known that the WTO agreements allowing flight of capital with no trade regulations has created a “race to the bottom” in the garment industry. Trans-national corporations shop 3rd world countries for the lowest wages and miserable working conditions for maximum profits. How do we know if surfboards are or are not being made in sweatshops?
I wonder what you guys would do if you where located like me where all the board you can get is imports?
Price examples(about 8-9 NOK to the $):
Safari Spider 6`2" Kr. 4999,-
Watercooled 7`4" polyester Kr. 4999,-
Fanatic longboard 9`4" Kr. 5999,-
NSP 6’6" kr 2 999,00
NSP 7’6" kr 3 299,00
NSP 9’2" kr 4 399,00
The polyboards are usually from South Africa, no artwork or tints. IMHO nice shapes but nothing special, crappy glassjobs. They cost about NOK 2000,- plus shipping(500,- NOK tops(quote for 10 boards from AUS)) to get to the surfshop including import taxes(yeah, I’ve done some checking). Built with cheap South African labor. Strangely enough I’ve only seen a handful of pop outs in the water, mainly surfschool and a few longboards. I guess they’re just not in fashion.
regards,
Håvard
As of now I’m only carrying my 3 brands , with my shortboard line being upper mid priced (less advertising) my classic longboard line higher priced (labor intensive–tints , stepdecks, g=p ect.) and my Girls line higher priced ( due to advertising in 5 different mags - 2 international and 3 regional)
between stocking my store and suppling my other shop accounts it’s all I can do to keep up this time of year so not to worried about price point, if I do get to that I may get a local shaper to do a shop line for me . I really want to distance myself from overseas boards and be known for Quality and customer service. At some point I would like to bring in Well known traveling shapers and offer up use of my in store shaping room and soon to be built factory around the corner in exchange for shaped blanks for the store, preferably guys from abroad who’s boards are difficult to come by.If this formula cotinues to work for me I can let the rest of the scab fight over the table scraps and price points alike as well as give some of my hard working surfboard brethren continued income and be able to sleep at night .
I think we need to start educating the public one at a time if we have to about this artform and sense of expression that our lifestyle is, as the mags are going to continue to suck the high dollar cock and keep on whitewashing the toxic sweaty high dollar some guy who could never shape before but now is industry expert b.s. that keep coming after the trendy surf dollar – just don’t expect me to go down without a fight –
I really want to distance myself from overseas boards and be known for Quality and customer service.
I think we need to start educating the public one at a time if we have to about this artform and sense of expression that our lifestyle is, as the mags are going to continue to suck the high dollar cock and keep on whitewashing the toxic sweaty high dollar some guy who could never shape before but now is industry expert b.s. that keep coming after the trendy surf dollar – just don’t expect me to go down without a fight –
I just checked your webpage, nice work! I was wondering where your garment selection comes from?
Matt, Just wanted to give you something to think about. As a garage shaper, the economics of surftechs and china pop-outs don’t effect me at all, I just do this for fun. What does get me though, is that no one see’s what is going on behind the scenes. By this I mean that these companies that produce pop-outs and surftechs are flooding a market where the majority of buyers are unaware of how the business works. Consider this, a local shaper can sell his product to an individual or a shop, but the client must pay upfront for the board(s) when they are delivered. Surftech has come in and offered shop owners (many of who are not rolling in capital) to stock their racks with as many boards as they have room for, with NO money down!!! Just sell as many as you can and 90 days from now we will collect our cut and switch out your unsold stock for free!!! Keeping 100 boards in a shop costs a shop owner a ton of $$$ on bank loan interest not to mention what to do with boards that just don’t sell. Every day see’s $$$ going out on keeping those racks full. On the other hand, Surftech (financed by some big bucks) can give you boards for free, just pay when you sell and give us back the ones that don’t sell. This is a remarkable strategy to tap a market, I don’t knock em except that what owner would shell out 35K for stock of unknown sale potential when he could get it for no $$$ down? Surely you see how this could eliminate business for local shapers. I know of a promenant shaper in FL who has lost a majority of business from competition with surftech and some “blue” label from china. As well, I have seen local shops here increasing their stock in both the afrementioned products. They are not increasing the shop space either, just replaceing handmade boards with these others. On another note, what about soul? Surfing has a few intangibles, and one of them is soul!!! HTere just is none in boards made by machines or people who don’t surf…end of discussion. One last thing and I’ll let you go. In this world there are givers and there are takers. Shapers give up big $$$ because they love the sport. Short of a few top names, no-one is making a fortune in this business, it about surfing and living the life of a surfer. Few thing compare to shaping someone a board and seeing or hearing the stoke when you find out how much fun they had with it!!! Surftech and other mass producers are not givers, they are takers. at all cost they will take $$$ from the sport. They are not into this for improvement of surfboard design, or else they would produce their own original shapes, not pay a few shapers to use their designs! The greatest trick they have pulled so far is to get these top names to sign on, and who can blame them…I mean if you can get $$$ for your name and design with little or no work, go for it. I beleive it is up to the consumer to boycott these “Taker” companies. All they will do is take until there is nothing left to take. In the mean time, your local shaper will have closed shop and gotten a new job. When surftech and these chinese companies go out, where will we get a real board then? Thanks for hearing my rant. Todd Osborne Fiberglassics osbornet@ufl.edu
Does anybody have a list or know how to find all the companies that are making popouts?
actually we don’t carry “crusty” brand the fiance just mistakenly put those up when she was building our new site as part of the template for the shopping cart but thanks for noticing - hey I might be able to check your site if you were’nt anonomous its easy to sit back and judge as long as the scope isn’t on you
Just to play devil’s advocate, how many US board factories have gotten ISO 9002 certification as the Cobra Factory has?
That is a step towards quality control most local shops don’t have nor probably don’t care to have, due to stringent qualifications.
Here’s an interesting article on the Cobra International Co Ltd:
http://www.reinforcedplastics.com/WZ/RPlastics/latest_feats/months_features/000043/show/
With that being said, I just picked up two new boards from my local shaper which were tweaked slightly from the previous ones to improve the shape for my needs and ability.
Where’s the part on my Surftech orderform where I tell them I want a
little more concave running up to the front foot and an 1/8 more tail
rocker? Oh, and also I need a little less toe-in for my new favorite
fins, thanks.
Holy S#!@,
That is unreal…
Hey SA - I’m not throwing a trip on you or nothing, just trying to connect the dots by following your lead. I’ve been reading your posts about homemade boards and went to your website that you advertise. I took the time to check you out, not judge you. The Rusty jams are pretty ugly anyway. Regardless of your representation on your webpage, I don’t give it any personal credence, as it is impossible for anyone to know what you are selling or if they are some templates or what ever. I don’t get any value out of these import threads cause we’re all hypocrites, aren’t we?
The one thing that really sets surfing apart from most other sports is until recently people made their equiptment by hand from scratch. Relationships were built between surfer and shaper. Not a few surfers began shaping and later became good shapers. To try and compare a popout or chinese made board produced entirely to make alot of money is equivalent to comparing a real Van Gouge to a print. They both look alike, but they both do not give you the same feeling.
The surfing industry always was from the very begining primarily designed by kuks for kuks, with the purist simply going surfing. Now what is being called a surfer is what every other generation prior would have called a kuk.
I agree with lawless not many fortune 500 companies are ISO 9000 certified. It’s a significant accomplishment for Cobra or any company to be proud of.
What’s happening is just a sign that there’s money to be made in this business and those that can smell the cash are placing their stake in the ground. Just like Billibong, Quicksilver, OP and these magazines have done already, what was once a hobby, a lifestyle, is now an industrial money making machine for those wise enough to hop on early. Kudos to Randy and Cobra for taking the plunge so early as there will many more to follow…
If you really dig down into the roots of a true waterman, soul surfer or what ever… you’ll probably find out that it really doesn’t matter to them what they use, surf/boogie/knee/epoxy/styrofoam board, wooden paipo, handboard, air mattress, and no board at all… Some one really living a waterman’s life will make the best of what ever they happen to have at their disposal to enjoy the ocean and any waves that might be breaking.
People worried about how their board looks, who makes it, where it was made etc is living the media version of this lifestyle. It’s all about whether you’re having fun or enjoying what your doing in the water, and not who you paid or whether something has a american, chinese, thai, australian, or japanese geneology… Sometimes I think we forget what this whole thing is about in the first place and get caught up in the what about my piece of the pie mentality…
Things will eventually settle down and get balanced out in the long run and people will get their due… The current worries don’t have a chance of changing that.
What’s happening is just a sign that there’s money to be made in this business and those that can smell the cash are placing their stake in the ground. Just like Billibong, Quicksilver, OP and these magazines have done already, what was once a hobby, a lifestyle, is now an industrial money making machine for those wise enough to hop on early. Kudos to Randy and Cobra for taking the plunge so early as there will many more to follow…
that.
Yes they have made money and gobs of it, but just like the snake oil salesmen of the past they are not selling anything but hype to a bunch of suckers. I have been in and around the so called surf business since High school. It’s pathetic wathing kids actually get caught up in the hype side of the culture which actually promotes being a whiney little loudmouth punk with zero future. The surfing side is what it’s all about not the hype or money side. Sorry, but yes it does matter where it’s made.
The main point is that the hype of this culture by itself is not sustainable… once the business case to make gobs of money goes away as the fad fades away all these large entities will close down or move on. Now I’m sure QS, BBong and a bunch of others are drooling and hoping it never does, but fads as they are always go thru cycles, Surfing is currently going thru it’s “internet boom” stage and the bust is only bound to follow, as soon as it’s not “popular” anymore to be part of this surfing culture.
Maybe it’ll be beach pollution, cancerous melanoma or something to scare the masses away that’ll do it or just the fact that we’ll run out of public beach space soon as the crowd expands. The general public is very fickle, they’ll just move on to what ever the media promotes as the “new thing”.
In any case those in the “business” justified to be around by either their product or service quality they provide will always have their customers and survive… Those who’s business is solely thriving on the current hype/popularity of surfing will move on or died out.
An interesting thought is as these boards become longer lived, and as their sales start approaching hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions the used product market for this gear as the fad fades away has got to be the next big money making enterprise.
Some bright geek wanna make some money?
Think about about setting up a used Surftech epoxy surfboard store on eBay to deal in these items as the surf wannabees move on… Just like they did for used cars… gonna be alot boards people will want to get rid of down the road…
Even better yet, how about some socially conscience individula collecting used plastic boards for the poor project where donated plastic boards are sent to the indigenous population of third world countries to “promote” the sport.
That’ll be a full circle event…
I kind of realized we hadn’t answered your question so here’s my dissertation on the subject (but again I’m a nobody in this industry…)
In my observation there 2 types of import strategies.
Type 1 is the more sophisticated SurfTech/Boardworks/Solomon type with the BIC/NSP version a lower in quality.
The purpose of this type is to create a new brand with name shapers using this channel to get to a broader market. Price target is higher and it’s aimed at both a sophisticated and unsophisticated customer who’s influence by media marketing (glossy surf magazines). Good floation, light and a reasonably stronger material design makes selling it to beginners and older surfers easy while the young crowd goes for the name shapers…
Type 2 is the mass produced Poly’s done by Kym Thompson’s (Watercooled), NSP new line, and Realm. Their selling point is based primarily on price and the fact that to the untrained eye they are pretty good looking boards. They are targeted to the newby who either doesn’t want to or their parent doesn’t want to spend alot since they don’t know if they will stick with this new fangled fad. A secondary market are the real young kids who can’t afford anything else with their paper route money etc… Finally as there’s the market of buyers who have transported the concept of disposable materialness to their surfboard buying and like the idea of spending 50%-75% on new boards they’ll just rid,e trash and move on from… Everyone loves new stuff all the time. Also probably why these things started out selling in Sam’s and Costco, where the price-conscious crowd shops.
Type 1 imports typically cost as much if not significantly more than a regular off the shelf or custom made item so the purchase is a significant decision and based on some criteria of perceived value.
Type 2 imports don’t reflect a percieved value of quality but more of cost savings i,e, getting more for your money or paying less some something just as good. Sort of the Kia-Sorenta sales pitch… you know get a almost as good an SUV as an Explorer for under $20K.
Type 1 imports are trying to develop market share through brand and a media driven perceived value of quality. Kind of what Starbucks and Jamba Juice have done to the purchase of a cup of joe or a smoothy. You become part of a common tribe, you feel connected and you pay alot more for something that may not be any better than what you’d get across the street at the hole in the wall.
Type 2 imports are developing market share through sheer volume and price and by taking advange of a current popular cultural fad that drives alot of inexperience purchasers to their product. They win by under cutting the market for a similar product.
In my opinion the type 2 foreign imports pose the greatest danger because of the price pressure they put on all the other standard polys produced today. If you don’t know any better and see two boards that look alike and one is half the cost of the other, you can bet which one a beginner will gravitate to.
I see alot of type 1 and 2 boards under a struggling beginner now adays alot of NSPs and Costco Realms. You do see Surftechs and Boardsworks but I see alot more “experience riders” on these that I do with the NSPs, softies, or Costcos. Most of todays grems aren’t going to last the decade unless they are persistant enough hold on to the lifestyle but as all of us knows that it takes work and commitment especially as responsibilities increase. How dedicated to the lifestyle these newbie BlueCrush babies will be 10-15 years from now is the question.
If the small shops can find their niche to make it through this current fad period of surf culture then they will rise up again as these type 2 factory market at least here in the US will slowly melt down and move their market off to possibly other countries.
The type 1 manufactors will continue evolving their technology, eventually supporting custom orders like custom levi’s. But they will always be around because they are firmly planted in the media/merchandising conglomerate that currently supports and drives surf culture. They type 2 manufacturers were too late to the table, but they will always be the costco, walmart, and perhaps sports authority product of choice.
Just an outsider’s viewpoint.
Oneula -
The lines get very blurry when you consider that all of the following labels - Blue, Seven, NSP, Modern, Southpoint, Sunset as well as all the Soft Top, Tuf Lite and Woody Surf Techs are built by Cobra.
Keep in mind that the shaper line up they have is top notch: John Carper, Phil Byrne, Matt Kechele, Randy French, Geoffe Rashe, Doc Lausch, Jeff Bushman, Glen Minami, Randy Rarick, Larry Gordon, Bill Hamilton, Doug Haut, Hobie, Mark Johnson, Steve Boehne, Hap Jacobs, Johnny Rice, Bob McTavish, Mickey Munoz, David Nuuhiwa, Robert August, Donald Takayama, Velzy and Yater (both of them) - see any names you recognize?
I don’t know if average Joe surf consumer would be able to tell the difference in the extra concave or tail kick referred to in an earlier post. Most would simply try another fin or another board model - there are plenty to choose from. In any case, the shapers above put in extra time to make sure their plugs are as good as it gets and I promise you they’re more technically accurate than most of us could do even on our best day.
Here is an article that spells it out:
http://www.transworldsurf.com/surf/surfbiz/article/0,15337,444320,00.html
BIC builds several levels of construction… ACS, CTS and G-Boards:
http://www.bicsportsurfboards.com/surfboards/index.php?bssid=8fe1f1a31a8e27d36636c9166ead8088
There are other overseas manufacturers that will do YOUR label and YOUR design and I doubt if many of us could tell the difference in the finished product. If you were retailing boards and could have them made overseas cheaper than you could do it yourself, that’s some incentive.
You mention that to the untrained eye, the imports aren’t as good as domestics… I have a “Rusty” Desert Island and to my untrained eye, the weave is exposed under the acrylic spray finish, it has brown spots where it has sucked water where there are NO dings and the deck has numerous pressure dents which seem to be an acceptable norm these days. I’m sorry but I have to ask, where is the “quality” in all that? Am I to believe that it is “good” because of the label and all the brainwash marketing behind it?
Don’t get me wrong - there is certainly a place for nice hand made customs especially for those that demand extra stringers, resin tints or other custom features that only a “one-off” will allow. I don’t see an abstract glassed Cooperfish model coming out of the Cobra factory anytime soon. For those of us who, as hobbyists just like to play around and experiment, there will always be a place. My observations are more for the industry at large and average surf consumers.
On the subject of imports, was in my local surfshop earlier today, its one of the shops I do surf lessons and ding repairs for, and they were selling all their Natural Art stock off cheap, seems the NA sales rep let it slip that they now make their boards in China but still want the same wholesale price for them. Shop owner was pissed and dropped them as an account and just wants to quickly get rid of the stock that he has already paid for. Oh yeah ,and the boards had no made in China stickers on them either.
On another note, Solosurfer and Cheyne, you guys do of course realise that that McCoy have numerous boards coming out of the Surftech factory. Whats your take on that?
I really hate the jump into this, but, Soul? sorry guys but it’s a piece of plastic. 95% of surfers couldn’t define SOUL if a gun was held to their heads…i’ve been surfing for 40+ years and still ride a ‘shorter’ board----i only buy epoxy hand-built boards(point blanks, cambell bros/clyde beatty) not because of the SOUL but because they last longer and ride better. My 12 year old started out with a BIC pop-out because it was stronger than anything in the shop. He’s moved on to a poly-ester board now for the performance, but, dad has to fix dings every week as it slowly falls apart, next board for him? probably epoxy, built by whom? we’ll see
I am not about to answer for Geoff Mccoy, but I feel the same about all pop outs. There was a time when I owned a larger surf shop that I rationalized like everyone else here is doing. What I have heard from many of my shaper friends that jumped on board the popout bandwagon; is they wish they had not given them their years of sweat and hard times for a piss ant royality that they have no control over.
If many of these shapers knew then what they know now, I wonder if they would do it. I have also had dealings with Surftech. They play the same old bullcrap 15 year old distribution garbage that Quiksilver and the rest play. I will sell to you but not to you, because the asshole up the street might get mad. From what I can tell You don’t spell surftech. S.U.R.F.T.E.C.H. You spell it E.G.O. T.R.I.P. Same goes for Boardworks and global surf industries. Also Rusty and Merrick opened the door for this stuff by turning surfboards into simply a product to sell with a hyped up name instead of a handmade work of art.
Asta