As I mentioned in my first post, I’m an old timer from back in the 60’s whose getting’ back into it. I’m making myself a board from a template that I used when I was shaping in Florida. It’s 7’6”, 22” wide (3” forward of center), has a 17” nose and 16” hips. I used to shape it with somewhat boxy hard down rails in the tail, egg shaped 60/40 rails through the mid-section and softer down rails in the nose.(the attached jpg shows how it looked – the rail profiles are not to scale) It was a fun little ride in everything from 2 ft. mush to chest high off shore walls. With a half step back, it bottom turned in easy arcs and with a step forward it would trim nicely into the wall of a fast section. Having read Greg Loehr’s wonderful dissertation on Pitch, and having read through many of the threads in the archives and the active discussions, it seems that there is a lot of new knowledge out there about surfboard design. I’m going to shape it from a Clark 7’10”R with natural rocker, but I sure would appreciate some advice on how I could improve it. Especially in the area of rail design. Take pity on an old guy whose been out of it for a long time and bring me up to date. Some vital statistics that might help in you evaluation:
I’m 62, 5’10” and 145 lbs of wire and gristle ( and still just a kid)…
I’m sure I’m not much help since I quit shaping in '76.
But I do ride a funboard in small surf nowadays.
If you like to cruise some, the nose is fine. Narrow and thinner for snap.
Rails are just about normal nowadays, but tail edge is more like lowegg with tucked edges, rather than hard.
Both my funboards are centered to slightly back widepoints, with nose and tail matching. As you know, for quicker turning in small waves, widepoint back works.
You gonna tri…twin…quad…or single?
Thickness more centered nowadaze, instead of the Brewer time tested at wide point.
Are you gonna surf it too?
Good to see you’re still in somewhat shape. I’m one inch taller and 5lbs. heavier at 55.
LeeDD, Thanks for the input. I’ve got the template in my cad program, so it’ll be easy to experiment with the wide point behind center. When I get something that looks good I’ll post a jpg so you can take a look at it. I’m going to use a single fin only because that’s what I originally used. Only problem is, I can’t remember how far up from the tail I placed it. What do you think? Where should I put it? Or should I use twins? And yes I’m going to ride it - over at the Outer Banks of NC. The surf there can be really good. The pictures I’ve seen remind me of the NJ surf were I started.
JRC, if it’s any consolation, most winters I weigh around 170, then drop 20 from snowboarding, tennis, and windsurfing. I’m a laborer/gardener.
Gene, I’m a box advocate (Chinooks, so you can post them thru to the deck for strength), and placed them around 5.5" up from tail, meaning a glasson, depending on rake, has trailing edge right at 8" from the tail.
Twins, usually 12-15 on funboards, but I use them pretty big, smallest around 6" x 6".
Both really depend on actual outline, rocker, and rider preferences, as you know.
I live near SanFrancisco, and usually surf OB, so I’ve used twins with 8" fins on occasion.
Your outline and rail profile looks great to me. If those measurements worked for you back then I can’t see any reason for them not working for you now. LeeD mentioned putting the box 5.5 inches from that tail, thats where I usually put my fin boxes too. You may want to consider putting some FCS or other fin systems as side bites, say somewhere around 14-16" up.
You’ve got a good eye for shape foamdust, I know the board would still handle the way it did back then, I was just hoping some of you more experienced guys could help me improve it. How do you think a slight “V” in the tail would be? Would that and a slightly softer rail make for easier turning? Both you and LeeDD have suggested side bites. How do they affect the feel of the board. The only thing I’ve ever experienced in multiple fins were twins on really short boards (4’6" to 5’6’'). Didn’t like them much. But didn’t like the shorties either…
You’ve got a good eye for shape foamdust, I know the board would still handle the way it did back then, I was just hoping some of you more experienced guys could help me improve it. How do you think a slight “V” in the tail would be? Would that and a slightly softer rail make for easier turning? Both you and LeeDD have suggested side bites. How do they affect the feel of the board. The only thing I’ve ever experienced in multiple fins were twins on really short boards (4’6" to 5’6’'). Didn’t like them much. But didn’t like the shorties either…
Gene
Just put in the FCS plugs or even better an adjustable fin system like RedX, 4way fins, LokBox. If you dont like them then take the fins out. smaller side fins often referred to as 2+1 setup are like training wheels for a thruster. Really feels middle of the road between a single and thruster but it depends on size and positioning of the fins. Try different setups Large rear fin small sides, all same size or large sides small back fin. Couldnt hurt, just to get back up to speed on newer multi finned boards.
Some good advice so far, yeah go with a 2+1 for sure. Nice looking outline! For the bottom I would fade in a V that peaks in front of the center box and fades (but not all the way) as it goes off the tail. 60/40 rails with a nice tuck too. I have to admit, Gene, that I feel unworthy giving you advice, I have only shaped something like 120 boards.
If you’re dropping the fins in… what’s the rush? Put in the box and try it out. If you don’t like it after a few legitimate tries, drop in the sidebites… no big deal.
But who knows, maybe you’ll prefer it with a single, and you won’t have those nasty looking plugs on the side.
Gene, that design reminds me of the Sunset board that was my fathers that I learned on. I went and measured the fin setup for you (single fin) like everyone else said, 10" finbox 5.5" up from the tail. Wich reminds me, Ive been meaning to do a post to try to get some info on that board and see where it came from… but I figured maybe you could use that info,
Hey scottw, What’s this unworthy stuff all about? You say you’ve only shaped 120 boards. Well 120 is no small feat. Once you get beyond 30 or 40, you’re either in the “zone” and have developed the skill or you’re fooling a lot of people. Here’s my take on shaping: not all good surfers can be good shapers and not all good shapers have to be good surfers. There are, of course, skillful surfers who are also great shapers, but there are also skillful shapers who are not great surfers. The former tend to be theoretical designers because their surfing ability allows them to evaluate the results of their design efforts in a meaningful way. The latter must rely on input and testing from the “locals” in order to develop their designs. Though I shaped a lot of boards, I belonged to the latter group and was one of those who was not a very good surfer (but I looked at surfing as being like sex in a certain way – even if you weren’t really good at it, it was still a lot of fun). When Greg Loehr said that the board I shaped for him was really great, I’ll tell you, it was great because of his ideas not mine. The shaping was good because of my technique, skill and experience, but the shape was good because of his design ability. So I don’t want to hear anymore of that unworthy stuff…with that many boards under your belt, you must be doing something right. If I didn’t want you guys to help me improve this old design, I wouldn’t have asked. Remember, as Jim Phillips would say, we’re all on this magic bus together.
Hey LeeDD, took your advice a tried moving the wide point back behind center. Attached is the revised template. I think I like it better because it seems to have a better entry curve at the nose and I was able to pull the tail in just a bit. What do you think?
i had a playboy mag when i was a kid that had a page with drawings of women. 30 little sketches, some with bigger calves, some with bigger breasts, but only slight differences between them all. “pick your favorite woman” it said. heck they were all quite ok. So just because one of your plans has some more hips than another, heck both are sweet. I loved the first drawing because of the way you showed the rail profiles. i wish some of the experts would pontificate about the rails. I might have made the rail in the front 50/50, and not changed the others, but honestly my opinion aint worth dingleberries.
Sorry Gene, thanks for the note :-). It has been said before that I sometimes get down on myself. I think your board would come out sweet with either outline, but if it were my board, I would take a look at putting the wide point at the center, or an inch above. Keep us posted, Scott
I suggested the side bites mainly due to the fact that I felt your hips at 16" was rather on the wide side and there is a possibility of a single fin sliding out a bit. I had that problem with an 7’0" egg. I added the sidebites and really like that board now. The suggestion for a vee bottom peaking where your center fin sits then flattening out towards the end of the board is also a great suggestion too. I’ve used that type of vee with good results. I prefer a soft tucked under edge from nose to the last 18-24" then having a harder edge toward the tail. Well thats what has been working for me lately. Good luck with your shape…
Thanks to all of you guys for your input. It’s been helpful in getting me to move in directions I wouldn’t have thought of. As a result, I’ve decided to make two boards for myself (you probably knew this was going to happen – that addiction thing). One with the width forward (single fin) and one with the width back (2+1 fin setup). That way I’ll be able to easily feel the difference. The attachment shows two templates with the wide point 5” behind center (LeeDD, is this more what you had in mind?). I know they’re not radical departures from the original, but these incremental differences represent an opportunity to venture into an area of design that is totally new to me (so I want to go slowly). I’m sorry to be such a pest about this, but if you would take a critical look at these two templates and let me know what you think I’d greatly appreciate it. Then I’ll shut up and get to work…
Hey Gene - I liked your April 7 template the best, it has the most flowing lines (to my eye, anyway). I would soften the rail in the nose, at least as compared to your original template (I think Foamdust was suggesting the same thing?).
PS As a certified Retro Geezer, don’t let everyone talk you into switching to multi-finned boards & “modern” designs just yet. I think you should shape a couple your old way, get your chops back in tune, THEN start farting around with the new stuff. Just a thought…
PPS Do you have a t-shirt business? You should, your writing is full of them (Surfing is like sex, even if you’re not that good at it, it’s still a lot of fun!)
