Right-of-way priority between a surfer and kiteboarder?

General Discussion
1

Got chewed out by one of the kiteboarders that were buzzing around our already-crowded lineup north of the jetty today. Among the obscenities was something to the effect of, “outta the way, I’m going down the line here”. This was as I was about to drop into, for the second time, a wave that this particular kite-flyer was “surfing” on.

Now, from his perspective, those waves had already been claimed by his surfing them. From my perspective, he has a means of propulsion that will move his ass 20kts anywhere he wants to go, there is a hundred miles of open beach north and south of the jetties, and I was waiting patiently for a nice peak to just happen to set up right where I happened to be sitting. From a strictly nautical perspective, the less manuverable vessel always has the right of way, like sail over power, and manpower over sail.

Judging from his reaction, I don’t think this particular kiter had thought all these factors through. I’m betting he is also a surfer, becuase there was that “my wave” kind of vibe to it. Pretty wild to see how bent out of shape he got, I could actually hear his hollering through my MP3 earbuds. Didn’t really know how to respond, so I just gave him the international hand signals for “Sorry, I can’t hear you because I have a bannana stuck in my ear, but perhaps you should consider my suggestions for just where you can stuff that kite, and how it can be wedged in place with that surfboard you are strapped to.” Not sure it translated well, but I think he got the general jist.

Anyway, there is a legitimate question here… Being that this is a new sport/sport interaction for me, I may be off base in my judgement of right of way priority. Is there an entry on this particular situation in the 2006 Code of Surfing Ethics?

2

I’d say paddle surfers(or body surfers) always have priority and in fact it seems dangerous for that to go on any where there are swimmers or surfers.

Roger

3

Manpower has right-of-way – game over.

4

Hey Shwuz,

I think kiteboarders should adopt the same rules/etiquette as windsurfers.

Here’s an example:

Maui Boardsailing Association

Sail Safe

Guidelines for windsurfing on Maui

In the interest of promoting safe and enjoyable windsurfing for everyone on Maui, the Maui Boardsailing Association has drawn up the guidelines for beach and water etiquette and safety. please adhere to these guidelines so we can continue to enjoy this great water sport on our island.

MBA

SAIL-SAFE GUIDELINES AND SUMMARY

OBSERVE

-SWIMMING AREAS marked by buoys. DO NOT sail, launch or jibe within these areas. See attached map for “No Boardsailing” and “Swimming Only” zones.

-SLOW NO-WAKE ZONE - 200 feet from all beaches.

-NO JIBING within 200 feet of all beaches. 200 feet CLEAR ZONE AROUND ALL DIVERS.

-Current WEATHER reports and forecasts.

-DO NOT sail in offshore winds.

-KNOW and COMPLY with ALL NAVIGATION rules applicable to sail powered craft.

-DO NOT sail in areas or conditions which EXCEED your SAILING SKILLS.

-NEVER sail ALONE.

-The Hookipa 5 man rule at Middles and 10 man rule at H’Poko.

GIVE WAY

-TO ALL swimmers, snorkelers, divers, surfers, fishermen and waterstarters.

-TO SAILOR on starboard tack.

-TO FIRST SAILOR ON WAVE.

-USE CAUTION in areas shared by divers, swimmers, snorkelers, and fishermen as they have right of way.

BEACHED RIGS

-MOVE your rig at least 40 feet from water’s edge.

-PREVENT “FLY-AWAYS” - Secure your rig at all times.

RESTRICTIONS

-NO BOARDSAILING at Baldwin Beach or Paia Beach Park.

-NO SAILING at Kanaha or Camp One before 11:00 am (With exception for beginners).

WATCH OUT FOR WHALES

-To protect our whales, the law requires that you maintain a safe distance from them: KIHEI - minimum 100 yards Violators of this law are subject to a maximum fine of $25,000.

Maui’s beaches and ocean environment belong to everyone. Be safe, considerate, and keep beach areas clean of litter and trash.

Taken from: http://www.actionsportsmaui.com/asmf_sailsafe.html

Cheers,

Rio
5

think i’ll print that out and postit on winshields of kite guys at one local spot.thanks for that post!

6

Shwuz,

I like Darklaw’s idea. That’s a good set of rules.

Sorry to offend kiteboarders here, but they’re dangerous as hell in the line-up. Last summer I was watching some kiteboarders working the down the coast in Huntington. One guy was lucky he didn’t kill someone. For about a half mile he was bouncing along the coast in the shallows through hundreds of wading swimmers. It was like a guy skiing off trail trying to avoid the trees.

He was pulling hard and getting lifted and setting down repeatedly. Can you imagine what a hard kiteboard with a 200 lb. guy strapped to it, flying though the air, would do the the skull of a little kid. What a jackass. He was almost out of control. He should’ve been where there wasn’t any people.

7

Well lets see

at my lineup I have at times

sailboarders flying through

kiteboarders flying through

idiots on jetskis wearing PFD’s (what a joke) blasting thru waves 15 feet from me

plastic kayakers plowing through the inside totally out of control in the whitewater

Then there’s the SUPs

the OC1s (one man Canoes)

and sometimes even the 4-6 man canoes

but those folks are usually more respectful

sure they get the stink eye if they start plowing through the pack but it never stops them

you can call the cops and the coast guard but by time they show up

either you or the culprit has given up and gone home for the day…

in any case it’s just a citation that never gets paid anyway…

usually its only when you show up with your 20’ boston whaler powered by double 40hp outboards and a bull horn to call them on it do they get the message.

Like you said Shwuz

I don’t know why some folks

equate having fun with selfishness…

The ocean is a big place

Their selfishness just makes it smaller

sounds like you need to view that video clip I sent you again to clean out those bad vibes…

8

they ar dangerous-i’ve been hit by one and back in the day, was plowed into and had a mast and sail come crashing down on my head from behind me.all three times i was sitting in the lineup minding my own business then-whack! blindsided…

9

Shwuzzie…

as you know I started this year. Thus far, it’s been my experience that while friendly people (for the most part), kiters are even more selfish than a good surfer that’s been without waves for months.

they shouldn’t be ANYWHERE near a crowded line-up of surfers. It’s like you said…hundreds of miles of beaches; probably lots of breaks too; probably some that would suck for surfing, but be just fine (fun!) for kiting.

lots of beaches across north america are being closed to kiters, largely due to bad behavior (unless you’re in Vancouver, where they just closed them all as a precausionary measure…little overboard up here in Western Russia). There are ways to insure it doesn’t continue and they usually involve civil complaints. A letter to the powers that be (if it continues to be unsafe and the perps continue to be dicks) will have the beach shut down for them. It’ll only take one incident, well described and documented, and it’ll usually (sadly) have to involve either the kiter or an innocent bystander getting hurt, but back to that selfish bit; selfish people usually don’t account for people doing things unexpectedly, so such an incident is bound to happen.

And whatcha gotta remember, is that if they really know what’s up, and conditions are worthy of being out surfing (rather than kiting when there’s high winds, thus shitty waves), that they should pony up and paddle in…who needs jet propulsion when it could be soooo simple. I don’t.

cheers,

g

p.s…come on jarrod…whatcha doin listenin to mp3’s during communion.

10

Shwuz,

great thread, as I recently started to surf a spot I had’nt been to in a long time. This spot is a haven for sailboarders and kiters alike in the late afternoons. The point it is pretty well protected from the harsh onshores in the afternoon, which makes it very surfable when alot of spots are blown out. When talking to a sailboarder about this subject, he indicated that even the sailboarders get cut-off by the Kiters. I have even witnessed some of this, when a kiter was flippin-off a sailboarder who he pinched off into the white water of a big close-out they we’re both racing to beat. It is obvious there is no respect for anyone there, and the most unfortunate part is the guy on the surfboard is most likely to get seriously hurt. Truth is, the surfer is way more in control of his craft than any of those folks.

I think it will pretty much be up to us to work out the rules of engagement here. Maybe if anyone is aware of a kiters forum similar to swaylocks, we could begin a dialog to discuss some points of etiquitte. It’s obvious this is a growing sport and we’ll have to deal each other more and more. Hopefully peacefully and safely.

11

Don’t get me started with the visiting Euro TRASH Uber windsurfers and kite boarders. I think those MP3 earbuds are dangerous too.

12

there are and should be tosspot free zone on all our beaches

GWN

maye seen as you have joined the ranks and build sick boards

maybe you can influence in surfing etiquett :slight_smile:

13

So can kiteboarders go in any direction or are they tethered to the direction the wind is going like a sail boat?

14

Imagine this guy at your local break

ouch!

Enjoy,

Rio

15

I’m going to just agree with the other comments here really. Thats to say that mutant kite boarding prats should stay well away from all other surfers along with knob ends who want to tow into waves that do’nt need it.

16

I wasn’t any where near the kite surfers car.

I wa 6,000 miles away.

unfortunate that the super glue clogged the

locking mechanism of the fellow’s automobile

who could have done such a thing?

and the passenger door?

gosh not the trunk too?

well at least the tires were not slashed or the whole works set on fire or pushed over a cliff into the shore break.

At least the surfers are more civilized today than in santa cruz 1969?

when the bolinas Rat lost his camper truck

to the pleasure point night fighters.

or was that the east side alley cats.

…ambrose…

being nice is contageous

not nice is a game of accelerating

confrontation,pick one.

17
Quote:

Don’t get me started with the visiting Euro TRASH Uber windsurfers and kite boarders. I think those MP3 earbuds are dangerous too.

To everyone who thinks waterproof MP3 players are a bad idea… Try them once. You’ll hate yourself for how much you enjoy it. :wink:

For the record, that is the only time in my surfing career anyone has ever attempted to shout me off a wave. The earbuds are only dangerous if they’re impeding your ability to hear those that you’ve gotten in the way of. I’m a very conscientious surfer, and I don’t drop in on others, so I don’t need to hear anyone yelling at me. But if I did, I can. A suprising amount of sound gets in around my earbuds, as I keep the volume at a moderate level. On a calm day I can hear the water splashing off my board as I paddle out.

Interestingly, (synchronicity?) “wave of mutilation” was the song playing when all this happened.

18
Quote:

Shwuz,

great thread, as I recently started to surf a spot I had’nt been to in a long time. This spot is a haven for sailboarders and kiters alike in the late afternoons. The point it is pretty well protected from the harsh onshores in the afternoon, which makes it very surfable when alot of spots are blown out. When talking to a sailboarder about this subject, he indicated that even the sailboarders get cut-off by the Kiters. I have even witnessed some of this, when a kiter was flippin-off a sailboarder who he pinched off into the white water of a big close-out they we’re both racing to beat. It is obvious there is no respect for anyone there, and the most unfortunate part is the guy on the surfboard is most likely to get seriously hurt. Truth is, the surfer is way more in control of his craft than any of those folks.

I think it will pretty much be up to us to work out the rules of engagement here. Maybe if anyone is aware of a kiters forum similar to swaylocks, we could begin a dialog to discuss some points of etiquitte. It’s obvious this is a growing sport and we’ll have to deal each other more and more. Hopefully peacefully and safely.

Check your state’s Harbors and Navigation Code. The California Harbors and Navigation Code is pretty broad on what constitutes a powered craft. The relevant Sections are 651.1, 655.2(a)(1), and 663 (specifying that a board propelled by a sail is propelled by mechanical means (“machinery”), and any vessel propelled by machinery must not exceed 5 mph within 100 feet of any person who is engaged in the act of bathing (Section 651.1 defines “bathing” as a person on a surfboard). If TX has a similar law, then you have some additional leverage in negotiating the rules of engagement since (as I understand it) law enforcement must respond if they receive a complaint about someone breaking the law (Section 663 - “…shall enforce…”).

19

I remember back in the 80’s when Surfrider Foundation founder Tom Pratte insisted on the Lifeguards in Huntington Beach stand by while he made a citizen’s arrest on jet ski operators that were creating havoc around the H. B. surf zone.

Roger

20

here in the NE -USA—new jersey—now that summer season has ended and lifeguards have gone back to school, some of our beach area have become ‘free-fire surf zones’ anything and everything inthe water at the same time—it’s gotten so bad that i just don’t even try to surf these spots and i was told by a former hobie cat sailor that it was even bad while the guards were on duty …the papaphase the title of allan weisbecker’s new book " can’t we all just get along?"