A bunch of kick in the tail is what I’ve been told by most, but what about in the nose. I’ve heard people say that its best to leave it super flat, or its best to have a bunch of nose rocker too (to act as a brake). Oh and whats the deal with scooping out the tail.
Ten Toes, A while back I began a long learning curve on this one, especially the tail kick. Seems you ask ten people and get about five different answers. Where to settle? I was hoping someone with more experience than I would have responded to you by now. Often the guys with the best advice just can’t get back to everyone, so since I know how frustrating it can be to wait for an answer that doesn’t come, I’ll give you my two cents worth on the tail kick. Perhaps a Jim P. or someone else will disagree violently enough with me to respond to you and we’ll both learn more. The whole idea of the tail rocker and upward kick on the deck back there is for the water to hit the dished or cupped area therefore serving to push the tail down which adds some lift to the nose of your board. Imagine setting your board centered over a log (deck up) like a see-saw…push down on the nose and it easily goes down, but with a little weight coming down on the tail (water contacting the “kick” area) the nose takes more resistance to drop. How much kick, what formula, what profile to use? Has a lot to do with board length, but since noseriders are generally in the 9-6 range (you see a lot up to 10-2 and down to 9 or so, the kick won’t vary much. My measurements for the tail kick on a 10’ 2": Lay an 18" straight edge (ruler or flat thin board) on edge on the deck of your board at the tail. One end of the straight edge on the tip of the tail center and the other end of the rule on the center stringer (18" back toward nose). Due to the kick up of the tail, there is a gap under the straight edge between the deck and the rule. My deepest measurement was 5/16" at about half way back from end of tail (8 1/2" to be exact). It’s a fairly radical kick almost appearing like a nose rocker kick. The secret is to blend in this top rocker kick with the overall smooth flow of gentle arc from nose to tail. It’s easy to get a bump or high ridge back toward the tail when you scoop it out. Take the same straight edge and run it lengthwise on edge down the center stringer from tail to nose watching the very slight gap that should appear under it all along the length. It almost lies flat on its edge toward the back behind center while the gap gets more dramatic of course as you slide the straight edge toward the nose.) The point is to make sure the straight edge doesn’t see-saw over any ridge created when you scooped your tail kick. Since this is all done before shaping the rails, keep the deck dead flat at this point and no twist with bottom. The bottom rocker just contours up to roughly paralell the tail kick (not as abrupt). OK, someone jump in and either bless this or pour water on it. If not, hope this helps. By the way, as you well know, the more “specialized” a board becomes for one purpose (kick for nose rides) the less it will do something else. In this case, the added tail kick will serve to actually deteriorate the ability for carving bottom turns, etc. But like your name states…you prefer to hang out on “the front row” while the other guys are doing those big turns to get in view.
you da man
Toes, Was going from memory, which is a scary thing when you’re my age, but on actually checking the measurement of the gap between the deck and the straight edge (as discussed above) I find that it is actually a hair under 1/4" not 5/16". Doesn’t sound like much but actually there would be a big noticeable difference. Even at 1/4" it’s a pretty major upturn kick. Use your planer to get in there(kick area)initially, but it’s such a quick “scoop” you’ll do some hand work. On a balsa board I did the following: Took a piece of 3/4" baltic birch ply (any wood dry and stable and at least that thick so it won’t flex) cut it 18" in length x 2 1/2" wide. Ran a round over router bit all around the bottom four sides and the top ends. Got some 3-M 77 spray adhesive and glued on a layer of 3/16" cork (avail. at hardware store or office depot), then took a 60 grit sanding belt (avail 2 1/2" x 21")and glued that on the bottom over the cork wrapping it up and over the ends. Stood behind the tail facing the nose with a hand grasping each end of the new planer board and worked it forward and back in fluid motions to work out the scoop. Started tight then slowly smoothed it up toward the center of the board. Time for block and palm planes and business as usual. Sorry to be so longwinded, but I always find it helpful when answers are presented at a 1st grade level like this so there’s no fuzziness as to what’s being talked about. Hope this helps you and anyone else where I was too on this a while back. Still hope someone with a PHD in this jumps in and corrects anything I’ve blown. Go for it!
Richard, You state: “the more “specialized” a board becomes for one purpose (kick for nose rides) the less it will do something else. In this case, the added tail kick will serve to actually deteriorate the ability for carving bottom turns, etc” I thought increasing tail rocker increased turnability? Is there some breakpoint where this is lost or am I just way off base? Also, I thought the increase in tail rocker served to create suction under the tail, aiding in holding the tail down and therefore the nose up? Lastly, with such an upturned tail, will it be harder for smaller, mushier waves to push you along. I guess what I’m asking is will the wave’s energey “spill out” from under such an upturned tail? Any insight into tail design for noseriders will be greatly appreciated. I have a mini-longboard design in mind that I hope will noseride half decently, but could still turn quickly off of the tail. Later Dee
Good questions, but I’ve got to remind you up front…I’m not the expert here. Think I’ll post a new thread up top referencing this one in hopes that Jim Phillips or another “guru” who actually provide me with what knowlede I have on the subject, will shed ample light on this. Until their guidance, I’ll just give a few feeble thoughts to invite their further input: Fisrt, generally tail rocker does increase “turnability” to a point because that’s where you get your pivot off center for rolling your turns. But…we’re not just talking overall rocker here, rather we’re talking tail kick in the last 9" or so whcih is executed on the deck. The bottom rocker is not so radical, just an extension of the overall bottom contour rocker. However, the upturn at the tip of the tail mushes out the turns. Opposite of a hard down-turned, tucked, sharp, tail rail, the kick along with soft rails back there don’t allow you to dig / carve a turn as a Gun would do at the other end of the spectrum. Second, I believe its more the tail section added width that promotes the suction you spoke of more so than the tail rocker. Noseriders usually have a wide tail (15"+ range up to 16"). This adds to the “mushy” turnability, but adds the skimming action and holding power for noserides. The pintail boards for example allow you to really turn up and down the face which a wide tail tanker isn’t going to do. Finally you asked if it would be harder for small mushier waves to push you with a kicked tail. You’re not likely to be on a wide kicked tail, specialized noserider in fast,hard,hollow break. The noserider is going to be doing its designed thing on a Malibu type wave. Not a lot of energy in the wave to begin with, but the flatter, wider, thicker, longer, noserider type board is going to catch these waves all day and the added kick isn’t going to make or break catching them. That’s my one cent worth. Hey experts…I need some help up here - this aint my stage, just trying to give some thoughts to some guys hungry for info just as I am most of the time. Help us out here!