I’ve been setting Edge performance Fins in my short boards. They seem to work great in all types of surf with a few turns of the allen screws. Does anybody have a good idea why they aren’t more popular? It seems products like the Edge Performance Fins and Swivel Fins are far superior to other setups simply because fin toe is easily adjustable. Lock Boxes have front to back movement but that does nothing compared to the rotational adjustment. Why set fin toe permanently? Any Ideas pro and con???
I use the Edge system in every one of my personal boards. I use Edge system for the side fins and a short FU box in the back. This allows me to fine tune the resistance of the side fins by changing angles and move the back fin forwards and backwards to adjust the boards pitch. Fantastic results! Last summer I went to Costa Rica. Used the fins almost straight at Pavones for down the line drive then the next day at Hermosa I angled the fins in for more snap. They aren’t more popular because there is no way to take new product to the market anymore without spending literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. Hard goods don’t have those margins so the mags are now just clothing rags. Swaylocks is about the best place to market hard goods today. Maybe the only place.
Also it seems like a majority of surfers dont even experiment with there fins. I love movin my fins around, but most others ive talked to just leave there fins set and dont even take em out. I try to explain how fin placement can change your ride for different conditions. But i guess people just like it easy. No moving no changing, just always the same. I like variety. anyways just my thoughts on that one. Have fun surfin. JOhnC.
It’s easy to genarlize. There are some surfers that pay little or no attention to their equipment. But, there are also lots of surfers that pay varying degrees of attention to what they ride. Since Red X makes a system with 13 different templates and adjustable fore & aft positioning, I get to dialogue with a lot of surfers who do care about how their fins affect their ride. Toe does have a significant amount of influence on how your board rides. The only issue I have with variable toe fin systems (aside from the fact that they are competing for the same market) is that the boxes like Future, Lock-Box and Speed Fins rely upon a large area bottom skin contact for it’s strength. Consequently, setting boxes in various bottom contours affects how you can set camber and how extreme or tight the bottom contours can be. But, I do agree that changing the toe does influence how your board rides almost as much as position, foil and template variables.
Greg: Are the fin templates for this system available from Rainbow/Bahne or only from Edge Performance? Didn’t see any details on their site about this. Thanks. Tom S.
"Swaylocks is about the best place to market hard goods today. Maybe the only place. " that’s quite a statement. i believe you are right. market, concept, feedback…where else would any hard good be up for discussion and dissection??
Tom-- Edge fins available at www.edgefins.kauaistyle.com
I talked to Clyde last week and he told me there will soon be a base available so any fin will fit. That means that glass fins or carbon or any other custom fin will be able to be fit into that system. That has been the only drawback so far, the lack of different fin sizes. Looking at the Red X fins and I’m thinking they may even be made to retro fit. Ramon, I’m afraid I am right.
…First off let me say that the Red-X Fin System is a great system and I would recommend them to anyone looking for a strong(est)set-up.I think in most, if not all instances,the Red-X Fin System is stronger than glass ons!Tom has a large variety of fin templates,as well as many options in fin material construction.He’s put alot of work into his fins/boxes and it shows.I see more and more of his fins in boards everyday,and always receive many great compliments on there performance…in my book nothing comes close! …On edge fins,I like the idea of ajustable toe,I also think Clyde and John are great guys and have a good valid product.I havenot tried the ones I received from Brian Barr @ Dingleberries yet, but I am in the final construction phase of a board with Edge fins on the sides and a Red-X box/fin in the center.Hopefully in time,if all goes well,Clyde and John will be able to offer a adapter-base for other fins,and or more templates of there own. …In any case these two systems get my attention due to the fact that they offer “conditions ajustments” ,strength,and both companies are willing to work with a little guy like me…that says it all!!!Herb
Herb brings up an interesting point. Fin attachment strength. Don Levy of Freestyle Fin Systems years ago did strength tests on several of the systems available at that time. I happen to have the results which were: FCS fin system was the weakest breaking at apporx. 8 foot lbs of pressure. Next came glass on fins breaking at apporx. 16 foot lbs. The others tested were Futures, O’fish’l and his own system which never made it. All surpassed 25 foot lbs. in his test. This was in the early resurgence of fin boxes back in the 90’s so Red X and Edge were not tested. I would say from my own experience these two would be at least equal to the top end. All the fin systems tested were superior to glass ons except FCS.
hey guys, if you like to adjust your fins all over the place this system may have merit for you. i have nothing to do with it but am looking forward to trying it out… check it at www.4wfs.com http://www.feraldave.com
Just a safety note in response to this quote: “All the fin systems tested were superior to glass ons except FCS.” In the event of a collision/impact between a fin and a human body, higher breaking strength can be considered to be a detriment, not an asset. Sometimes its a good thing to have a fin snap off.
It’s all a matter of priorities. If you’re willing to give up performance all the time for safety during the occassional accident, there are several soft fin options available on the market.
Geez, Tom, that’s kind of a snide response – performance “all the time” versus “the occasional accident”. I think safety is an “all the time” concept as much as performance is. Here’s a quick poll: How many Swaylockians out there have NEVER been hurt while surfing? versus: How many of you have been injured by a fin or board? In any reasonable design forum (which this is) safety should never be sneered at. In my humble opinion, anyway. Would you drive a car engineered just for performance but not for safety? Would a professional race driver? Not likely…
I’ll give you, I took your criticism to an extreme. And, yes I have been cut numerous times by fins. But, 99.9% were on glass on fins. I’m just saying that there is a range of priorities out there. We make the fins that go into most surf school boards BZ, INT, Szabad, Morey, all use our fins because they are relatively safe. They don’t look real sexy. But they hold their form under load better than soft fins that look conventional. Now, that’s one extreme of the safety concern scale. When we made Red X, we decided to bang the strength and performance side of the equation. When FCS was sueing SurfCo for Proteck fins that fit FCS plugs, we were happily providing the geometry to fit our boxes. We wanted people to have a safety option there as well. But, Life is full of compromises. We observed that the trend in the market was going back towards glass ons due to their performance benifit over a looser weaker fin system. So, we decided to take the benifits of removability and make a system at least as strong if not stronger than glass ons.
Howzit Greg, You’re right about the cost of promoting a new idea, and John and Clyde are trying to do it on a shoe string budget. They are trying to stay away from BIG Business investors and keep their 100% ownership interest which I think is great. I print their lams for them and also can do installation of the system. I believe Clyde is on the mainland doing a promotion tour as I write this. He was asking me the other day if I could recommend any shops for him to call on, unfortunatlly after 30 + years on Kauai I’m out of touch with mainland retailers. Billy Hamilton took some boards with edge fins to Tahiti a couple of years ago to test the system. He rode Teahupoo and other breaks and found that by changing the fins direction he could get maximum speed and manuverablity in different types of wave and conditions. To say the least Bill is impressed and promotes the system avidlly to people buying his boards. I’ve known Clyde since he came to Kauai and met John a couple of years ago. They are both really good guys and I commend them on their system and wish them all the success they deserve. I give them feedback on the system and have even added some input for some new features to add to it. This fin system is only going to get better and we should keep our eyes and ears open as it progresses. Aloha, Kokua
Kokua, I met with Clyde in San Diego last week. We were both visiting with Rusty at the time. Your right this system is one to watch. Tom, I agree with you on performance. With all the soft edge fins available I certainly don’t see any need for a wimpy system. And, strengthwise your system is vastly superior to glass ons. I’d also like your take on end plate effect and the disadvantages to base roving on glass ons.
Aloha , Clyde Rodgers with Edge Fins here ! Having the ability to fine tune your surfboard to the conditions of the surf is huge ! surfers and shapers should do themselves a favor and give Edge Fins a solid try! the smallest adjustment will light your board up in small surf or give you more control and drive in solid conditions!!! example, a month ago I surfed my 6’5" in 6’ Hanalei bay with my fins adjusted out, paralell to the stringer, my board performed like a paddle in tow board. I came away from that session with chicken skin !! Yesterday I surfed 2-3 foot pinetrees ( bch break ) towed my fins in at the nose and the same board was super fast and responsive !! Now ck this out, Asymetrics ? Tow inside fin out for drive off the bottom and your outside fin in for a quick snap off the top! " Fine tunning your surfboard " My brother John and myself have been building boards at Bill Hamilton’s shop here on Kauai for 9 years now, We have set all the fin systems and Edge Fins are an evolution of that and fine tunning Lairds, Nelson, Derrick, etc’s tow boards . Edge Fins and adjustable fins are the wave of the future !!! Ck us out www.edgefins.kauaistyle.com Mahalo, Have a great surf ! Clyde Rodgers http://www.edgefins.kauaistyle.com
Aloha Clyde, Yes the asymetrics work great. I forgot to talk about that. I like that especially in chop. Drive off the bottom and then the snap is much easier to come off a chop/peak/mush thing. Makes asymetrics a reality for every board.
Greg Loehr , Mahalo for your support !! Edge Fins have been receiving some great feed back , wright me for any Questions ? I can enlightin you on fin positioning !! Aloha , Clyde Rodgers , Edge Fins !!! http://www.edgefins.kauaistyle.com