Hey,
I just dinged my favorite board, which is a homemade 6’0" singlefin. The board is something similar to a Machado singlefin or a Good Karma (if I do say so myself…except it’s homemade). The widepoint is forward, I ride it with a Frye flex fin way up in the box, and I’d say it is in the old-school but modern style. I shaped by taking the first 1/3 from my favorite fish and the rails and tail from an old Bing Lotus. It goes great in just about any surf in socal, from dumpy OB shorebreak to Baja to the Cliffs all winter long…which is why it’s my favorite board.
So, when I ding the hell out of a board, I generally use that as an impetus to shape a new one.
I was thinking of shaping something highly similar–another 6’0" with a planshape, rocker, and thickness similar to the fun, glide-oriented modern singlefins out there (but with some performance elements to it)… But–this time, maybe make it a QUAD!!!
What do you all think? Is this a ridiculous idea? Anyone ride anything similar? I’ve seen the few examples in the Resources section–any feedback? How do they ride?
Thanks!
Hi Randy,
since the thread of Dec '06, I’ve made a few roundtail Q’s that were shorter, including
6’0". They are practically identical to thruster shortboard shapes with the fin set-up
shown in that thread.
Review of thread; http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=296491;#296491
I’d say the shortboards go well overall, I think the 3 fin in the small stuff is still more of
a vert hitter- but as the waves get bigger the Roundtail Q hits vert just fine and with
great release (which was a big issue with quads of the past). Probably just needs more
tuning to get the vert thing (but the surf has been awful for weeks, so not much testing).
The advantage and reason why a quad is a good option is the speed. If you can fit that
into your plans my guess is that you will not be disappointed…
HTH,
George
Hey,
Thanks! I started that last post, but kind of forgot about my quad dreams. Basically, I am trying to make a Sunset Cliffs’ Special (but something that’s good at Black’s, the OB jetty, Baja, etc… now I’m giving away where I surf… oh well). I love disc-y type boards, but they are all single fins (i.e. not quads), and sometimes lose their grip if I want to go up high on the wave or have a really steep face or whatever (we all know the limitations of a single fin).
Basically, I was something with the soul of a single fin disc-type board (MSFg2, maybe?), but with something unique, something that will make it hang in on steep faces, turn harder, etc. I want to surf like I am riding a great flying disc, but people will say, "whoah–is that guy riding a little UFO? Are there aliens in there???
Oh, and I want TONS of speed. I like to go fast. Faster than I can imagine, and then make some kind of huge full rail turn.
What do you think?
Forget about the first paragraph Trucker, this is how I know you hang out in OB:
Quote:
I want to surf like I am riding a great flying disc, but people will say, "whoah–is that guy riding a little UFO? Are there aliens in there???
That’s classic.
You could toss on some sidebites and make it a 2+1 or if you are super cool some little runners.
Jess
Agreed. Small sidebites with a flexie center fin–still have a lot of the singlefin glide, now with a bit more bite and attack. Aliens with a bit of 70s soul thrown in for good measure.
Quote:
The advantage and reason why a quad is a good option is the speed. If you can fit that
into your plans my guess is that you will not be disappointed…
Good summation George.
I’ll add/clarify that 4/5 finners rail surf and carve faster. The possible reason for a 3’s better vertness is cuz the 4/5 gets “sticky fast along the arc” while the 3 seems a bit more free to change in the rear. This is why I think GG uses three little ones back there when going with 5.
I also agree that it may take a while to experiment and dial things just right. I think over the next year or so things will likely converge towards a real happy place. There is more opportunity for fin experimentation and board optimization with 4/5…perfect for the surfer/builder who loves to experiment and explore unknowns in the quest for even higher performance levels and yet to be discovered majic. And that my friends, is what DIY board building is all about.
What do you mean by “sticky fast along the arc”? As in the board is stuck in a particular path, unable to change directions easily?
Everyone seems to love the speed dialer set up–lots of speed, but still loose & surfs well backside. Can that be blended with the smooth transitions of a round pin or is it heavily dependent on the wide swallow tail?
Hey Retro,
I was checking out your champagne tint quad in the resources section and it looks insane. What type of fins are you using? Do you mind passing on the measurements on the tail and fin placements?
gracias!
Quote:
What do you mean by “sticky fast along the arc”? As in the board is stuck in a particular path, unable to change directions easily?
Yeah you got it. You know flying down the line, coming up to the top and starting a turn to redirect back. Only to find the board wanting to do a fast long arc out into the flats,… not a slash and redirect off the white water. Send you out to no mans land and get drilled.
That was meant as a positive thing.
While bottom turning, the two rail fins hold you in super solid and keeps you accelerating…it feels different when trying to redirect or shorten your turning arc quickly when youre hauling so much ass.
FWIW, Ive been surfing 5 more than 4…4 seems looser.
But I havent had enough sessions to make a final judgement and I still feel that I havent optimized the setup…but Im getting REAL close. My last session was on a 3 and it was great, but that board is a totally different animal with entirely different materials (xps) and design. The hardest thing about having so many good boards is deciding which one to ride.
4/5 is definitely the way to go with extra wide boards, but it seems like it can be applied to other designs as well, as +1 has shown.
I like to shape some vee through the fins on shorboard quads (not quad fishes) to help the board redirect with a bit more authority. Maybe it’s because I grew up surfing moderately vee’d early '80s boards, but it feels like it eliminates some of that stickyness, and with a little concave running through it, keeps the water flowing through the fins cleanly. Accurate fin placements are key for quads, but they have to be matched to a good tail rocker.
Trucker–the champagne quad has rear fins at 5.5" up from the tail, set 1.75 inches off the rail. Fins are toed at 1/8". Front fins are at 11"x1.25 off the rail, toed at 1/4". There’s a little play in there thanks to the Lokboxes (LB1s and LB4s). I haven’t ridden it that much this winter, as I just had a baby, but it’s definitely faaaaaaast. So fast I can get twice the waves, surf half as long, and make it home for the next diaper change!*
*This statement is in no way true.
Cheers,
Jamie
Hey hey,
Thanks for all the info. Now…how do you determine the fin pacement? Originally, I was thinking that pushing the fins closer to the rail is better, but your experiences seem to contradict that. What gives optimal quad fin placement on a round pin?
I was thinkinking about a possible zinger bottom, which means I’ll need more space in the center of the tail. But, will I run into the shore-side fin-release problems you were describing? What do you think?
Thanks again for all the help!
Hey Trucker,
the release of the shoreside fins is something I had happen on the first few quads I did.
I experienced it when I was in bigger waves and doing fairly strong sustained bottom turns.
The problem has not happened in smaller waves.
I got the problem to go away by moving the fins around a bit. By the fifth board the
manners were good. All subsequent boards of this tail type have worked well using
the same basic set-up.
A Zinger is a dedicated design that Mike Eaton has dialed-in. I’ve seen him in bigger
waves with the boards and they work well. The fin set-up is more twinzer than quad.
(twinzers using smaller fins as “vanes” to guide flow over the larger fins and maintain
attached flow, quads fin sets interact less intentionally but still as a set doing work
sequentially dependent upon demands of the rider).
Good Luck.
George