Sacred Craft or Well Funded and Organized Propaganda?

General Discussion
21
Quote:

Hey, most of you don’t have a clue what it takes to put on a trade show. You need the big names to step up, because the little guys don’t have the cash to pony up. At best you could get a few little guys to spring for a small booth, Like $1,200. That ain’t gonna cut it.

Who else in the surf business you gonna turn too to help share the cost of the expo, what, you gonna charge $100 a head for the general public to get in…no

Thank god there are guys like Rusty, Lost etc to help out with this kind of event. I don’t see any Local guys stepping up? Rainbow, Christenson, Ezera, Walden, Walker, Bessel, Stamps, Sharpe Eye, Epic, Surf Perscription…List goes on. Reason: No money to waste on this kind of marketing. Trade shows don’t generate much business. Expos do even worse, it’s all about the public at these events.

So what if they pitch there story? Were all big kids and can read between the lines.

-Jay

Been doing trade shows for 18 years.

Good post. Been right there with you. As much as I enjoy writing about the big boys and stuff in the industry…Banning stuff is never good. In the end…you will also end up banned. Don’t ban anyone. Just keep up the dialog and let your craft do the talking. On imports…thats hard to compete with when the public does not know or care and only wants the cheap price.

22

I disgree with you Byron. I was one of the first if not the first person Scott talked to about this event. So your theory is wrong. If what you say was right, He woulda contacted the big boys first. Knowing Scott, his idea was a place for the general public to come see boards and fins. It was my understanding that it would be boards and fins. He needed enough people to warrant getting the exibition hall at the del mar fairground to make this a legit event. He does quite a bit to help out the small domestic surf industry guy. All my friends build surfboards and I totally agree with what you’ve been doing on these message boards, and wish there was more guys like you standing up for the future of custom domestic board making. However, I think you could better spend your energy in places like the retail shops where the real battle is being lost. Shops are walking people right past the real boards and pushing the pop-outs down there throats thanks to incentives like free round trip tickets for certain shop owners and their wives to OZ, for putting all their employees on them and pushing them to their customers. This needs to stop. Buy 50 boards and get 120 day terms. These are facts believe them or not. How do we compete with that? Educate the shop owners on exactly how they are killing our industry by the day.

23

Actually, as a long term surfer(we won’t go into actual dates), who just loves the concept of the surfboard as an object of desire, I’m planning on attending! putting lots of boards and builders in one place for the public to come and see—sounds good to me! if the biggies want to try and sell me a mass produced board,they bettr have their ‘game on’,but, i will listen and ask questions. Say, isn’t marketing just organized propaganda anyway?

24

so I woke up figity on the couch infront of a blaring tv

it was like 5am

i was

driven…

bugged my woife asked her if’n she wanted to go

she said no I phoned two copads

and went

saw the dawn

it waasnt glassy

sterted to drive away

compad 2 drove up

we left

I went home sat down

at the blue campfire and

tickled the keys

then went to

the sacrmental

surfboard altar

in the temple

polyester and clark

were on tap

sanded the deck to prep for deck patch

under which wwent the laminates

hand screened by yours truley

then while that was goin off i

got out the accumulated rail cut glass scraps

and assembled the basic flex fin

on a pane of plate glass

hot coated the deck patch

as that was goin off

I trimmed the scrap glass

and after moving the cooling hot coat

outside lammed the glass

sealed with a layer of waxtex

I moved the hot coat back in on the rax

and went to visit me woife

and fell asleep on the floor

in her store.

the kid came by and

asked where all the surf shops were that

were listed in the freesurf

magazine

some of them were extinct

one was going outa business

he asked If I wanted

a stack of hand out mags

I said no thank you

I showed him my store

called it a real surf shop

he was from peru.

spreading the revolution

he saw the balsa glue up and asked me if

I was taking apprentices

I told him to get some wood

I would tell him what to do

hey man,think globally act locally

overthrow the giant

subvert the terra

beneath the feet

the bigger they are

the harder they fall

grace?

expo?

great.

I had an expo

I shaped the fin

and then

zap a gaped it on

compad two showed up after

I had preped the

the glass to

attach it to

the board on the rack

whilst he was standing

I lammed it and

hot coated it

before going to

wash off the itch

at the beach

I have long held the opinion

that I have won more contests

by not showing up.

nice expo.

when the

time comes

for the revolution

it will hasten itself.

things gotta get real bad

like nothing but canned soup

before people start making it fresh.

…ambrose…

the indominable spirit

of creativity will win out

keep the faith.

25
Quote:

What trade shows have you been going to the last 18 years? They are a bussiness I agree, but many of the biggest brands that have mega set-ups are comped the space fees just to get them to be there. It’s hard work for sure, but that’s not the point, the overall point I’m cocerned about is the outsourcing of American manufacturing overseas and the long term effects it will have on our jobs and the US economy.

Byron

Trade show 101 (general terms all class of trade):

$5,000-10,000 for the booth, that includes a 8ft table, 2 chairs, riser back,nifty table curtain, and badges for 3

$1,000-2,000 to show your product in outside or up front kiosk

$2,000-4,000 shipping and drayage

$1,000-2000 to have a Teamster set up your booth

$15,000-75,000 professional looking booth custom made, complete with electrical, chairs, display cases, cool laminates. This is not the skyline pop up booth type thing etc.

$5,000-6,000 yerly fee for professional company to take care of that professional booth…Most big companys only use the booth once or twice.

2-3 employees to man the booth…over weekend. No pay, just do it.

2-3 employees hotel. $239.00 per night. Tourist tax $5.00, exise tax $.98, internet access $9.99, hotel parking $18.00

2-3 employees meals $100.00 per day pp. if they have some drinks, add $50.00

2-3 employees air fare $500.00 round trip

1-2 extra badges…$300.00 Dude can you get me into the show, I need a bro deal…F-me

Don’t know about anyone getting free booths, I do know that if you get more booth space the price comes down, but you still pay more…like 10 ft for $1,000. But 20 ft for $1500…so you still have to pay

Best case your into it for $30.5K…you better sell a lot of surfboards.

I don’t know much, but I do know that the big guys in all COT (class of trades) make the shows work.

Oh yeah, then you got the little local guy at the trade show:

split booth back in corner by the rest rooms $1,000

used skyline display booth bought on e-bay $1,000

Graphics printed and made at Kinko’s $300.00

sleeps at friends house, or in car, or commutes $20,00 gas money

Carls Jr, Mc D, Burger King $20.00 per day.

total maybe $3,000 still a lot of money for a little guy to pony up…he better too sell a lot of gear.

26

Better to take that 3 grand and shape some cool boards which you sell at cost to all your friends. If you do them right and their pretty, people will come back and pay. I don’t shape as a job like some people have to / get to. Mainly shape boards for myself to play around with. But I tell you, everytime I make one for a friend they bring 2 other friends around to get a board. I do a bunch of fun boards this way. Fishes…eggs…singlefins. Of course I can’t make any money at it because it takes me too long to make them. If I was better I might be able to do some critical proformance boards. I have a couple of friends that really rip…but they have very strict requirements and close rocker tolerences. That’s where a real shaper comes in. You have to be damn good to shape close tolerence boards per rider w/ consistancy by hand. Maybe even better than a glasser that does resin tints and acid splashes well? The bottom line is if you are good people will seek you out. If you are really good people will bang your door down. I think little guys should not follow trends in terms of asthetics, go heavy on the artwork / graphics (stuff that the big guys don’t have time to do)…light on the names and corporate logos / branding… and be generous for a while. Make them hungry for what you got.

27

‘‘I think you could better spend your energy in places like the retail shops where the real battle is being lost. Shops are walking people right past the real boards and pushing the pop-outs down there throats thanks to incentives like free round trip tickets for certain shop owners and their wives to OZ, for putting all their employees on them and pushing them to their customers. This needs to stop. Buy 50 boards and get 120 day terms. These are facts believe them or not.’’

I used to shape at one of the larger retail stores in San Diego. I would be accessible to both the customers and the employees for questions about surfboards and surf history from my lifetime of experience. One day the owner of the shop told me to stop going in the shop because the 20yr old “experts” already knew EVERYTHING {they wanted them to know} about boards and surfing. One of the things that kept me in the surfboard biz for so long was that I did not have to lie to make a sale. Just had to make the right board for the for the customer. NO SMOKE NO MIRRORS NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL SURFBOARDS. This has all changed, shops dont want there employees to know that “shaper” did not shape that board even though his name is on it OR that that board comes from China or ??.

I like the idea of smaller guys being able to showcase their boards somewhere BUT at the minimum price of $550 for a small booth I don’t think I could afford it, starting over AGAIN. So will it really be for the “small” guys or will they get “lost” in the deal.

I would love the chance to try and copy one of Diffs boards, but I doubt those opportunity’s will go to the little guys either. Maybe they should get the Chinese shaper who is holding the planer with one hand and the cord with the other {Surfer article} to show us how its done. Guess this is why they wanted me to go. ACE

http://acesurfboards.com

28

No doubt on the costs…

At the BAUMA show in Germany (construction show/EXPO) the Germans vendors warned chinese ‘copycats’

 German Vendors Put Chinese 'Copycats' on Notice - ENR | McGraw-Hill Construction

 <a href="http://enr.ecnext.com/free-scripts/comsite2.pl?page=subscribe" class="bb-url"></a>


Description  German engineers kicked off an explosive trade show in Munich by lobbing verbal grenades toward the Far East.

how big is the board industry? not even close to one manufacturer of Heavy Equipment.

They are losing as well.

Go to the show - talk to those you hate and talk to those you do not know - it will be a great learning experience as everyone will be in one place. It may not be around again.

Just like Woodstock and the Monterey Pops…

Good luck on the show…

29

I have had further dialog with Scott about the event and I will be participating. I think Scott Bass’ intentions are good. The well funded, large overseas manufacturers that have leveraged their way onto the local retail shop floors with terms and incentive programs like you mentioned are moving on the Sacred Craft event in the same aggresive manner. As many of us small independent builders as possible need to get organized and get to the show to present our side. We need to show the kind of value we can provide local surfers. We need to discuss the benefits of our materials and processes and make a statement about our manufacturing location choice.

Byron

30
Quote:

‘‘I think you could better spend your energy in places like the retail shops where the real battle is being lost. Shops are walking people right past the real boards and pushing the pop-outs down there throats thanks to incentives like free round trip tickets for certain shop owners and their wives to OZ, for putting all their employees on them and pushing them to their customers. This needs to stop. Buy 50 boards and get 120 day terms. These are facts believe them or not.’’

I used to shape at one of the larger retail stores in San Diego. I would be accessible to both the customers and the employees for questions about surfboards and surf history from my lifetime of experience. One day the owner of the shop told me to stop going in the shop because the 20yr old “experts” already knew EVERYTHING {they wanted them to know} about boards and surfing. One of the things that kept me in the surfboard biz for so long was that I did not have to lie to make a sale. Just had to make the right board for the for the customer. NO SMOKE NO MIRRORS NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL SURFBOARDS. This has all changed, shops dont want there employees to know that “shaper” did not shape that board even though his name is on it OR that that board comes from China or ??.

I like the idea of smaller guys being able to showcase their boards somewhere BUT at the minimum price of $550 for a small booth I don’t think I could afford it, starting over AGAIN. So will it really be for the “small” guys or will they get “lost” in the deal.

I would love the chance to try and copy one of Diffs boards, but I doubt those opportunity’s will go to the little guys either. Maybe they should get the Chinese shaper who is holding the planer with one hand and the cord with the other {Surfer article} to show us how its done. Guess this is why they wanted me to go. ACE

http://acesurfboards.com

Here’s a perfect example of where our industry is headed. No place for a free thinking shaper like Ace. Albert, you helped me out tons back in the day, at a time when not many were helping me. Please pm me your number. Make a board. One of your 6 shooters. I’ll make custom wood fins for it and come down and drop the boxes in myself. We’ll put it on display and your welcome to hang out at the booth with us. Send that number. Or send it to lokbox@sbcglobal.net Cheers Jim

31

Right on Jimmy!

This is how it needs to be, local grass-roots, cottage manufacturers coming together to support the cause! If we all show what we can do and what we can provide, we will have all the work we need to survive and to keep doing what we love to do. We need to rally as much local and independent builder support as possible for the Sacred Craft event. We all out number SurfTech, the Chinese and Vietnamese builders by a huge margin, and I think the Sacred Craft Surfboard Expo will show that.

See ya in the water, Byron

http://www.myspace.com/byrondesign

32
Quote:
Quote:

I used to shape at one of the larger retail stores in San Diego. I would be accessible to both the customers and the employees for questions about surfboards and surf history from my lifetime of experience. One day the owner of the shop told me to stop going in the shop because the 20yr old “experts” already knew EVERYTHING I’ve never been a fan of that chain of surf shops. You just confirmed all my thoughts. OOps they just lost another customer…wait i’m not much of a customer, because I only use them for Surf Wax when the 7-11 is out of stock.

33

Been doing it for years. I’ve gone way out of my way making sure boards get built on time, my partner and I running around like chickens with our heads cut off pre tradeshow time to make sure we had a dozen or so locally built boards in our booth. For the last 3 years we purposely kept our booth in the lobby at the san diego convention center so that some of the general public could come in and at least see some boards. I’m sponsoring the UK fish fry in england along with my distributor to help keep the dream alive over there. They are getting drowned in overseas pop-outs over there. The northeast is a big problem right now along with the rest of the east coast. Lack of glassers and shapers over there is my guess.

But think about this. Two of the largest retail shops in florida are RonJon and Cocoa beach surf company. Ron Jons has around 1000 boards on the retail floor, and cocoa beach has close to 1500. Both stores are 80 to 90 % pop-outs. We gotta start working together boys…

Couple sneaky cell phone shots…

34

i’m gonna puke…

35

I enjoyed these words from ‘the surfer’s path’

Wake Up!

Posted on February 04, 2007 @ 4:28 PM

Words by Ned McMahon

I don’t know what has happened to our wonderful world of surfing. When I think back on our history, one thing stands out far above board design, movies, magazines, clothing companies, etc. – and that, dear reader, is individuality.

This new wave of boards being made in molds is killing individuality. It’s starting to resemble what happened in Detroit. Just look at the beautiful cars of the ‘60s compared to today’s wedges. Back then, any kid could stand on the side of the road and name the cars, because they were each different and individual. Today, it’s hard to tell a Mercedes from a Hyundai. Our surfboard industry is going the same way. That saddens me.

As a kid I remember being very thoughtful in the selection of my new boards. Besides having a great shape by someone I admired in the surfing world, I also wanted some special color I liked, or a different design from everyone else. That was so important. Today, a surfer could actually be caught standing next to another with the exact same board! Not only same color, but same shape, decal placement, fin – everything! That’s because these new boards were popped out of the same mold in an Asian factory.

Yes, it’s true that surfboard technology holds no secrets or special skills that can’t be learned by any reasonably talented craftsman. It is also true that the person smoothing grooves on a machined blank or laminating or sanding doesn’t have to be a surfer, but I feel there is something missing without that connection. Is it the elusive “soul” that everyone speaks about? Is this connection the essence of soul? Maybe it’s not whether a shaping machine was used or not, but the degree to which the craftsman is involved with the final product. I’m not sure I have the answer but I do know something is missing.

There was a day when a surfer would only get a board from a guy that had experience with the local break, his style, etc. You wouldn’t go to a known longboard shaper to get a state of the art shortboard, simply because the shortboard shaper would have a closer connection to the experience. Today, we have boards by the thousands coming out of factories where some of the workers haven’t even seen the sea. Where’s the connection?

I recently saw a shop displaying beautiful new carbon fiber boards. They looked great, the technology is awesome, but all five of them lined up looked exactly the same – shiny black carbon. Where’s the individuality in that? To me it’s the difference between original art and a digital copy printed on canvas. Yes, it still looks nice hanging on the wall, but it looks exactly like your neighbor’s hanging on his wall.

Has a surfboard just become another commodity to be manufactured, used up and tossed on the heap of other waste we so readily produce? And while many new molded boards are cheap, what is the cost to the shapers, laminators, pin-liners, sanders, etc, who have put in a lifetime of dedication?

There are two key ingredients that separate surfing and surfboards from everything else. To me, one of the most beautiful is surfing’s purely subjective nature. No two boards ride identically and therefore personal preference becomes the quantifier of what is good and bad.

The other this expression: “Only a Surfer Knows the Feeling”. This is absolutely true – not only of surfing, but of surfboard manufacturing too.

I think it’s time to wake up. Surfing offers a chance to be an individual, slow down, breathe deep, appreciate life, and be a part of the natural world. Let’s keep surfing and surfboards apart from the rest of our crazy world. Let’s leave this last bit of nature’s magic to those that have experienced it and then can translate that magic through the tips of their collective fingers into something that is beyond the realm of commodity.

Wake up!

Ned McMahon has shaped over 30,000 surfboards over a 30-year career in the industry, all of them with “soul”.

36

Good one Resinhead and most of the big boys and small ones that have been doing it awhile will tell you that you don’t get much other than an ego boost out of a trade show. Those making the money own the show itself. Surfboards, surf shops, fins and etc. must operate their business effectively. Some do a really good job and become the big boys. As long as they give customers what they promise, don’t tell lies, and give good customer service…they deserve what they have earned. The small shapers are owed nothing simply because they are small. They are not any cooler or better quality than a bigger more popular shaper who continues to put out good work and service. I think most of the problems some of us have with some of the big guys is they keep market share and their quality and service go down. They also tend to try and get all the market share. Nothing really wrong with this either. It’s part of the game.

At a surf expo you have a place that you can actually compare quality and attitude… in that respect they are a good thing.

37

I’m waiting for OTAY to jump on this?

Quote:

This new wave of boards being made in molds is killing individuality. It’s starting to resemble what happened in Detroit. Just look at the beautiful cars of the ‘60s compared to today’s wedges. Back then, any kid could stand on the side of the road and name the cars, because they were each different and individual. Today, it’s hard to tell a Mercedes from a Hyundai. Our surfboard industry is going the same way. That saddens me.

As a kid I remember being very thoughtful in the selection of my new boards. Besides having a great shape by someone I admired in the surfing world, I also wanted some special color I liked, or a different design from everyone else. That was so important. Today, a surfer could actually be caught standing next to another with the exact same board! Not only same color, but same shape, decal placement, fin – everything! That’s because these new boards were popped out of the same mold in an Asian factory.

38

lots of good stuff going on here.

Hey Jay, take you’ve been to a few tradeshows. Yes there are lots that go into it. LOL on the OTAY thing! Lox and Bassy, I think its going in the right direction. There’s a tradeshow that has the board as the centerpiece. And not only that, is its including people that shape their own, like Bonzer bros and Hess.

Not like the ASR show, which is all encompassing for action sports and also focuses alot on fashion.

Sometimes a blessing comes in disguise . . .

At first, I was thrown off about Matt B talking about asian impact . . . they should have also included Byron to speak about that also . . . But now I’m realizing its about the board, and that’s something.

In regards to jobs going oversees, remember America is beyond merely industrialization, we’re in the information age. Production is something we already know how and posses. Look at the top companies in US, many of them are information / computer related. Google, Microsoft. Skilled professionals like doctors. As jobs are exported, new ones requiring different skills are opening up.

America didn’t get to where it was at by sitting around, it came from innovation and hard work. . . I know and feel that even though the dark side of consumerism shows itself, as individuals we can do our part.

Surfboards are a craft . . . That does require local talent and knowledge, but many (surftech, large manufacterers) think they are just recreation toys, better suited for mass production. . . . but they are wrong, Ambrose is right.

thanks for putting this thing on . . .

about the german vs copy cats things:

http://enr.construction.com/products/equipTrackTrends/archives/070424.asp

I like their take, instead of using their profits to sue, they are using it for marketing and R&D to stay on top.

39

Thanks for posting the link Hiro

rambling along in FLV

40
Quote:

In regards to jobs going oversees, remember America is beyond merely industrialization, we’re in the information age. Production is something we already know how and posses. Look at the top companies in US, many of them are information / computer related. Google, Microsoft. Skilled professionals like doctors. As jobs are exported, new ones requiring different skills are opening up.

America didn’t get to where it was at by sitting around, it came from innovation and hard work. . . I know and feel that even though the dark side of consumerism shows itself, as individuals we can do our part.

Surfboards are a craft . . . That does require local talent and knowledge, but many (surftech, large manufacterers) think they are just recreation toys, better suited for mass production. . . . but they are wrong, Ambrose is right.

thanks for putting this thing on . . .

about the german vs copy cats things:

http://enr.construction.com/…/archives/070424.asp

I like their take, instead of using their profits to sue, they are using it for marketing and R&D to stay on top.

The real issue with overseas stuff is profit. End of story. Big companies have found a way to utilize labor without having to hire anyone. America cannot only be a service country. You have to produce something. We are headed for a major meltdown with the economy if the gap between the rich and poor continues to wide and the middle class continues disappearing.

Thats why we have such demagougery from our government. As long as they can keep us pointing our fingers at the other guys…the masses will not look at the real enemy sitting in Washington…paid for by multi national corporations.

When it filters down to something like the surf industry it’s way more evident to those who are just getting by when a major change occurs and popouts/Asia is a major change.

Creativity is the way out cause government is not going to change. I suspect the next major break through could come from one of the small guys.