Seeing the great response that Rich got with his 8’9’post I will hop on the bandwagon and ask a similar question with an 8.0 in mind. This board will be for an average shortboarder (occasional weekend warrior) that has been surfing for about 12 years. This will be his first board over 6’4". He is looking to maximize wave time as well as have the ability to have a responsive board that can be pushed when necessary. What would you do with: rail configuration, nose size, tail shape and size, bottom configuration and rocker etc… Thanks in advance, Magoo
Seeing the great response that Rich got with his 8’9’post I will hop on > the bandwagon and ask a similar question with an 8.0 in mind. This board > will be for an average shortboarder (occasional weekend warrior) that has > been surfing for about 12 years. This will be his first board over > 6’4". He is looking to maximize wave time as well as have the ability > to have a responsive board that can be pushed when necessary.>>> What would you do with: rail configuration, nose size, tail shape and > size, bottom configuration and rocker etc… Thanks in advance, Magoo ______________ Hey Magoo, You’re right about the responce. It makes a big difference when you’re embarking on a new project. My suggestions for the 8’0" egg: thickness according to the weight of the surfer-- your choice. Nose around 17", If you want down line speed keep the width under 21. Tail 14.5 to 15.5 whatever looks good but I think it would be a mistake to go narrower in the tail. Bottom, a little convex as the nose rocker ends. to flat. if you want speed and a light feel put a slight concave in the center section and a gentle vee in a rounded pintail of course. nose rocker 4.5 to 5.5 tail 2.25-3.25 . 50/50 rails up front gently going down through the mid section to hard in the tail. That’s my quarter’s worth.Probably a little modern in many ways but it will perform! Good luck. Good Surfin’, Rich
I think Rich is pretty much right on the money, but I would go for a rail with a tucked edge.
______________>>> Hey Magoo,>>> You’re right about the responce. It makes a big difference when you’re > embarking on a new project.>>> My suggestions for the 8’0" egg:>>> thickness according to the weight of the surfer-- your choice.>>> Nose around 17", If you want down line speed keep the width under 21. > Tail 14.5 to 15.5 whatever looks good but I think it would be a mistake to > go narrower in the tail. Bottom, a little convex as the nose rocker ends. > to flat. if you want speed and a light feel put a slight concave in the > center section and a gentle vee in a rounded pintail of course. nose > rocker 4.5 to 5.5 tail 2.25-3.25 . 50/50 rails up front gently going down > through the mid section to hard in the tail. That’s my quarter’s > worth.Probably a little modern in many ways but it will perform! Good > luck.>>> Good Surfin’, Rich Rich, I like the way that ‘looks’ in my minds eye. Can you elaborate on the benefits (or characteristics) of the convex at the end of the nose rocker for this type of shape? Final two Q’s: Where would you start the Vee in the tail and what blank do you think would be the best fit for this particular project? Side note – I’m making this as part of my graduation gift to my little brother. He’s getting a BS in Physics at UF and just got a fellowship awarded to him from Penn. I’m gonna give it to him with a pair of wall racks so he can look at it and dream for the next three years! Thanks for the help Pal, Magoo P.S. Thanks Scott W for your input, I am evaluating the tucked under edge vs a hard rail at the end of the stick and I hope to get additional insight from the crew on that particular design feature.
Rich,>>> I like the way that ‘looks’ in my minds eye. Can you elaborate on the > benefits (or characteristics) of the convex at the end of the nose rocker > for this type of shape?>>> Final two Q’s: Where would you start the Vee in the tail and what blank do > you think would be the best fit for this particular project?>>> Side note – I’m making this as part of my graduation gift to my little > brother. He’s getting a BS in Physics at UF and just got a fellowship > awarded to him from Penn. I’m gonna give it to him with a pair of wall > racks so he can look at it and dream for the next three years!>>> Thanks for the help Pal,>>> Magoo>>> P.S.>>> Thanks Scott W for your input, I am evaluating the tucked under edge vs a > hard rail at the end of the stick and I hope to get additional insight > from the crew on that particular design feature. Hi Magoo, If you put a mild convex in the the part of the board that breaks the water as it plans across the face of the wave it smooths out the chop when things get a little windy. You don’t want to run it back very far though as It tends to keep that section of the board down in the water and make it a little heavier in the water. Round bottom ride soft, Flat bottom ride hard and pounding. I’d start the vee about 2 feet from the tail, very gentle mind you. If you want some lift put a little concave in each side of the vee. Get a blank of normal weight blank with a nice wide stringer about 8’6". Look for one you can see the shape inside of it. I’ll bet Herb or Bruce can tell you exactly which one to pick. Then just act like you are water and dress the shape out of it. I’d put a regular central fin box in it with either RedX or future rail fin boxes. That way you can surf it single, thruster or twin depending on the conditions. Don’t Overlook contacting Cheyne Horan for one of his Starfins. When it gets big and fast there’s nothing faster as long as there’s no kelp. Good Surfin’, Rich
Rich,>>> I like the way that ‘looks’ in my minds eye. Can you elaborate on the > benefits (or characteristics) of the convex at the end of the nose rocker > for this type of shape?>>> Final two Q’s: Where would you start the Vee in the tail and what blank do > you think would be the best fit for this particular project?>>> Side note – I’m making this as part of my graduation gift to my little > brother. He’s getting a BS in Physics at UF and just got a fellowship > awarded to him from Penn. I’m gonna give it to him with a pair of wall > racks so he can look at it and dream for the next three years!>>> Thanks for the help Pal,>>> Magoo>>> P.S.>>> Thanks Scott W for your input, I am evaluating the tucked under edge vs a > hard rail at the end of the stick and I hope to get additional insight > from the crew on that particular design feature. Magoo, Hollow nose will give your brother’s egg lift in smooth water. In chop, concave will make it bounce. Tucked rails will make two things happen. 1)The board will hang higher in a pit, instead of trimming out of the pit. 2)The board will remain turnable at slower speeds which would stall sharper rails. I worked it up. Here’s a 96" egg. 16.7"n x 22.2" x 14.7"t, with the wide point offset 2" forward of center. Rocker is 4.2" in the nose and 2.9" in the tail, with enough progression for 1/4" to 3/8" of tail V. The midboard rail foam is 2.9" thick. The rail line is .85" high with a 1.2" tuck. The upper rail blends into a medium crown. I gave the board slightly (roughly equally) pointed ends. I looked at the rough shape on CAD, and I wouldn’t mind having this egg in my quiver. Congratulations on your brother’s SUPERFINE degree, and acceptance to grad school. Just to have accumplished this much, his intelligence and abilities are very special. The air is EXTREMELY rare up there. Please wish him God’s speed for me. …tell me what you think: Board: Length , Outline , Rocker 0 , 0.00 , 2.90 0 , 0.00 , 2.90 0.5 , 1.25 , 2.81 1 , 1.93 , 2.73 2 , 2.91 , 2.57 3 , 3.65 , 2.42 4 , 4.27 , 2.29 5 , 4.80 , 2.16 6 , 5.27 , 2.03 7 , 5.69 , 1.91 8 , 6.08 , 1.80 9 , 6.43 , 1.70 10 , 6.76 , 1.60 11 , 7.07 , 1.50 12 , 7.35 , 1.41 13 , 7.62 , 1.32 14 , 7.86 , 1.24 15 , 8.10 , 1.16 16 , 8.32 , 1.08 17 , 8.52 , 1.01 18 , 8.72 , 0.94 19 , 8.90 , 0.88 20 , 9.07 , 0.81 21 , 9.24 , 0.75 22 , 9.39 , 0.70 23 , 9.53 , 0.64 24 , 9.67 , 0.59 25 , 9.80 , 0.54 26 , 9.92 , 0.49 27 , 10.03 , 0.45 28 , 10.14 , 0.40 29 , 10.24 , 0.36 30 , 10.33 , 0.33 31 , 10.42 , 0.29 32 , 10.50 , 0.26 33 , 10.57 , 0.22 34 , 10.64 , 0.20 35 , 10.70 , 0.17 36 , 10.76 , 0.14 37 , 10.81 , 0.12 38 , 10.86 , 0.10 39 , 10.90 , 0.08 40 , 10.94 , 0.06 41 , 10.98 , 0.05 42 , 11.00 , 0.04 43 , 11.03 , 0.03 44 , 11.05 , 0.02 45 , 11.07 , 0.01 46 , 11.08 , 0.00 47 , 11.09 , 0.00 48 , 11.10 , 0.00 49 , 11.10 , 0.00 50 , 11.10 , 0.00 51 , 11.10 , 0.01 52 , 11.10 , 0.02 53 , 11.10 , 0.02 54 , 11.10 , 0.04 55 , 11.09 , 0.05 56 , 11.09 , 0.06 57 , 11.08 , 0.08 58 , 11.07 , 0.10 59 , 11.06 , 0.12 60 , 11.04 , 0.15 61 , 11.02 , 0.17 62 , 10.99 , 0.20 63 , 10.97 , 0.23 64 , 10.93 , 0.27 65 , 10.89 , 0.30 66 , 10.85 , 0.34 67 , 10.80 , 0.38 68 , 10.74 , 0.42 69 , 10.67 , 0.47 70 , 10.60 , 0.52 71 , 10.52 , 0.57 72 , 10.43 , 0.63 73 , 10.33 , 0.69 74 , 10.22 , 0.75 75 , 10.09 , 0.81 76 , 9.96 , 0.88 77 , 9.82 , 0.96 78 , 9.66 , 1.03 79 , 9.48 , 1.12 80 , 9.29 , 1.20 81 , 9.09 , 1.29 82 , 8.86 , 1.39 83 , 8.62 , 1.49 84 , 8.35 , 1.60 85 , 8.06 , 1.72 86 , 7.74 , 1.84 87 , 7.38 , 1.98 88 , 7.00 , 2.12 89 , 6.57 , 2.27 90 , 6.09 , 2.44 91 , 5.54 , 2.63 92 , 4.92 , 2.84 93 , 4.19 , 3.08 94 , 3.30 , 3.35 95 , 2.13 , 3.70 95.5 , 1.31 , 3.92 96 , 0.00 , 4.20 Rail: Width , Deck , Bottom 0 , 2.05 , -0.85 1 , 2.05 , -0.85 2 , 2.05 , -0.85 3 , 2.05 , -0.85 4 , 2.04 , -0.85 5 , 2.02 , -0.85 6 , 1.98 , -0.85 7 , 1.91 , -0.85 7.5 , 1.86 , -0.85 8.0 , 1.79 , -0.85 8.5 , 1.70 , -0.85 9.5 , 1.44 , -0.85 10.0 , 1.24 , -0.85 10.1 , 1.20 , -0.84 10.2 , 1.14 , -0.82 10.3 , 1.09 , -0.80 10.4 , 1.02 , -0.77 10.5 , 0.95 , -0.74 10.6 , 0.88 , -0.69 10.7 , 0.79 , -0.63 10.8 , 0.69 , -0.56 10.9 , 0.57 , -0.47 11.00 , 0.41 , -0.34 11.05 , 0.29 , -0.24
Hollow nose will give your brother’s egg lift in smooth water. In chop, > concave will make it bounce. Tucked rails will make two things happen. > 1)The board will hang higher in a pit, instead of trimming out of the pit. > 2)The board will remain turnable at slower speeds which would stall > sharper rails.>>> I worked it up. Here’s a 96" egg. 16.7"n x 22.2" x > 14.7"t, with the wide point offset 2" forward of center. Rocker > is 4.2" in the nose and 2.9" in the tail, with enough > progression for 1/4" to 3/8" of tail V.>>> The midboard rail foam is 2.9" thick. The rail line is .85" high > with a 1.2" tuck. The upper rail blends into a medium crown. Some observations: Right on about how bottoms contors and rails affect performance, good call Magoo! It depends on the kind of surf you’ll be riding. Keep it wide and don’t tuck the rails too much if the surf you’ll be in is not going to have too much juice. But if you want to fly go egg rails from about 2 feet from the nose to another 2 feet or so and then start tuckin’ ‘em and keep the board narrower to straighten out the lines a little. I’d say the wider you make it the softer the rails and the more narrow it is the more you want to tuck them in the middle and harden them into the tail. The difference between a 20.75" and a 22.5" width in this length board is huge. Mushy=Wide, Steeper walls= more narrow So go with what you think will serve you best. And let us know about what you decide on. Good Surfin’, Rich
Some observations:>>> Right on about how bottoms contors and rails affect performance, good call > Magoo! It depends on the kind of surf you’ll be riding. Keep it wide and > don’t tuck the rails too much if the surf you’ll be in is not going to > have too much juice. But if you want to fly go egg rails from about 2 feet > from the nose to another 2 feet or so and then start tuckin’ ‘em and keep > the board narrower to straighten out the lines a little. I’d say the wider > you make it the softer the rails and the more narrow it is the more you > want to tuck them in the middle and harden them into the tail. The > difference between a 20.75" and a 22.5" width in this length > board is huge. Mushy=Wide, Steeper walls= more narrow So go with what you > think will serve you best. And let us know about what you decide on.>>> Good Surfin’, Rich Rich and Noodle, I want to thank you both for your valuable insight. I’m going to plot out your numbers today Noodle and make a template from it. Thank you very much for taking the time to plot the numbers for me. I may just make one of these for myself as well! Rich, I’ve been playing around with miniature Star fins (C. Horan type - remember when he used to cover the tail of his board with a towel when he was on the beach?) with the intent of using them in the canard set-up just to see how the affect rail drive etc… I’m intrigued by your speed comments within your previous post. Would you know the Star angle with respect to the ‘Y’ Axis (the ‘X’ being the board bottom)? I would like to create as many components of the board as I possibly can. Thanks again guys for your input. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it. I will let you know how it comes out and I may just post it because of your help on it. Aloha, Magoo
Magoo “Would you know the Star angle with > respect to the ‘Y’ Axis (the ‘X’ being the board bottom)?” Just split the circle in three equal segments. 120 degree pie pieces. Tricky business making a star fin, I’m about to embark on that project as well. Good Surfin’, Rich
"Would you know the Star angle with>>> Just split the circle in three equal segments. 120 degree pie pieces. > Tricky business making a star fin, I’m about to embark on that project as > well.>>> Good Surfin’, Rich I am as well thinking about either buying one or building it. However I’m hesitating between the Starfin and the Butterfly/V-fin. How does the Starfin behave? As a single fin, can it help hold a wide tail in hollow waves the same way Dale Velzy’s V-fin does ? To my understanding, the V-fin make your board turn better and the Y fin tends to lift up the tail, but does anyone knows more precisely how the two approaches differ (“V” shaped vs “Y” shaped)? Pierre
I am as well thinking about either buying one or building it. However I’m > hesitating between the Starfin and the Butterfly/V-fin.>>> How does the Starfin behave? As a single fin, can it help hold a wide tail > in hollow waves the same way Dale Velzy’s V-fin does ? To my > understanding, the V-fin make your board turn better and the Y fin tends > to lift up the tail, but does anyone knows more precisely how the two > approaches differ (“V” shaped vs “Y” shaped)?>>> Pierre I just got a StarFin from Cheyne in the mail (just a funny fin with an address sticker in my mailbox). You can buy them from him for $33.00US. See http://www.cheynehoran.com.au or email him at or @hotmail.com I’ve used mine on a Harbour HP1 with fun results. The biggest noticable difference is down the line drive is enhanced. Plus if you want to ride over sections the drive and lift you get before hitting them is super. Turning at first seems like a pivot (since there is no rake), but on the second surf you can do full roundhouse cutbacks and the stability on the foam is good too. No noticable drawbacks. Really look forward to using it on a shorter board where I think it will perform even better. Hope that helps, Rob
I am as well thinking about either buying one or building it. However I’m > hesitating between the Starfin and the Butterfly/V-fin.>>> How does the Starfin behave? As a single fin, can it help hold a wide tail > in hollow waves the same way Dale Velzy’s V-fin does ? To my > understanding, the V-fin make your board turn better and the Y fin tends > to lift up the tail, but does anyone knows more precisely how the two > approaches differ (“V” shaped vs “Y” shaped)?>>> Pierre Hi Pierre, The V-fin is long boards only as far as I’m concerned. But I’m sure there’s someone out there that’ll disagree with me. Neither fin really lift the tail. At least it doesn’t feel that way to me. I think the star-fin is miles ahead of the V-fin. It’s very positive you really have this feeling of the board making all the speed that it’s capable of with it and seems to have an sharp accelerating feeling in the turns. Very smooth! It’s only made in one size right now but you never know what’ll happen. I works very similar to the V-fin when it comes to holding in the tail when nose riding though that is’nt really what it was designed for. Remember if you’re there’s kelp forget both of them. I’m sure if the angles and the foil of the star-fin were made differently it could be made to have a greater lifting effect on the tail of the board. Whether that’s desirable or not is a matter for conjecture. Good Surfin’, Rich
Seeing the great response that Rich got with his 8’9’post I will hop on > the bandwagon and ask a similar question with an 8.0 in mind. This board > will be for an average shortboarder (occasional weekend warrior) that has > been surfing for about 12 years. This will be his first board over > 6’4". He is looking to maximize wave time as well as have the ability > to have a responsive board that can be pushed when necessary.>>> What would you do with: rail configuration, nose size, tail shape and > size, bottom configuration and rocker etc… Thanks in advance, Magoo Just a little extra food for thought --8’0" hyper-egg nose 17" with and up type 50-50rail transitioning into a down rail in the tail about 60-40 in the middle center wide point-21 3/4 and a thinned tapered tail round pin 15-15 1/2 the bottom light roll in the front 1/3 into flat light concave center w/ a “v” in the last 36" and real light double barrel concaves w/ the “v” and the blank go w/ an 8’4"r backing up the templete plus 1/2 tail rocker if you can get it this board rips under experienced feet and is a favorite of begginers and old guys too—I know it goes against the grain a little but you might want to consider it----oh yea tri fin set up, I can hear the purist groan now --its ok just a little spice
In case you want some of the fuller noses, tails or V mentioned here… Here’s a fuller outline. It has a 15" tail and 17" nose. It has the same 22.2" width and 2" forward offset, so you can mix and match noses and tails. The fuller noses and tails should give better paddling floatation. Also below, this rocker has more progression and a flatter entry. You can use it to add more turning V. Or left flatter across, this rocker will paddle and cruise better, but won’t handle juice quite as well. The rocker isn’t for mixing with the previous rocker. Use one or the other. I think there’s a mild industry consensus that tail rocker progression and flatter entry go better with fuller noses and tails. Length , Outline , Rocker 0 , 0.00 , 2.90 0.5 , 1.25 , 2.81 1 , 1.95 , 2.73 2 , 2.96 , 2.57 3 , 3.72 , 2.42 4 , 4.36 , 2.28 5 , 4.90 , 2.14 6 , 5.38 , 2.02 7 , 5.82 , 1.90 8 , 6.21 , 1.79 9 , 6.57 , 1.68 10 , 6.91 , 1.58 11 , 7.21 , 1.49 12 , 7.50 , 1.40 13 , 7.77 , 1.31 14 , 8.02 , 1.22 15 , 8.25 , 1.15 15 , 8.25 , 1.15 16 , 8.47 , 1.07 17 , 8.67 , 1.00 18 , 8.87 , 0.93 19 , 9.05 , 0.86 20 , 9.22 , 0.80 21 , 9.38 , 0.74 22 , 9.52 , 0.68 23 , 9.66 , 0.63 24 , 9.80 , 0.57 25 , 9.92 , 0.53 26 , 10.03 , 0.48 27 , 10.14 , 0.43 28 , 10.24 , 0.39 29 , 10.34 , 0.35 30 , 10.42 , 0.31 31 , 10.50 , 0.28 32 , 10.58 , 0.25 33 , 10.65 , 0.22 34 , 10.71 , 0.19 35 , 10.76 , 0.16 36 , 10.82 , 0.14 37 , 10.86 , 0.11 38 , 10.90 , 0.09 39 , 10.94 , 0.08 40 , 10.97 , 0.06 41 , 11.00 , 0.04 42 , 11.03 , 0.03 43 , 11.05 , 0.02 44 , 11.06 , 0.01 45 , 11.08 , 0.01 46 , 11.09 , 0.00 47 , 11.09 , 0.00 48 , 11.10 , 0.00 49 , 11.10 , 0.00 50 , 11.10 , 0.01 51 , 11.10 , 0.01 52 , 11.10 , 0.02 53 , 11.10 , 0.03 54 , 11.10 , 0.04 55 , 11.10 , 0.05 56 , 11.09 , 0.07 57 , 11.09 , 0.09 58 , 11.08 , 0.11 59 , 11.07 , 0.13 60 , 11.06 , 0.15 61 , 11.04 , 0.18 62 , 11.02 , 0.21 63 , 11.00 , 0.24 64 , 10.97 , 0.28 65 , 10.93 , 0.31 66 , 10.90 , 0.35 67 , 10.85 , 0.39 68 , 10.80 , 0.44 69 , 10.74 , 0.48 70 , 10.68 , 0.53 71 , 10.60 , 0.59 72 , 10.52 , 0.64 73 , 10.42 , 0.70 74 , 10.32 , 0.76 75 , 10.21 , 0.83 76 , 10.08 , 0.90 77 , 9.94 , 0.97 78 , 9.79 , 1.05 79 , 9.62 , 1.13 80 , 9.44 , 1.22 81 , 9.23 , 1.31 82 , 9.01 , 1.41 83 , 8.77 , 1.51 84 , 8.50 , 1.62 85 , 8.21 , 1.74 86 , 7.88 , 1.86 87 , 7.53 , 2.00 88 , 7.13 , 2.14 89 , 6.69 , 2.30 90 , 6.20 , 2.47 91 , 5.64 , 2.65 92 , 5.00 , 2.86 93 , 4.24 , 3.10 94 , 3.32 , 3.38 95 , 2.11 , 3.73 95.5 , 1.27 , 3.96 96 , 0.00 , 4.25
Thanks for the second template. You consistently exceed expectations on this site.Thank you for the kind words regarding my brother. I plan on inserting the template information as well as all of the input that I received from my fellow Sways. so that he can see this was actually a transcontinental project. Ultimately I plan on calling him after every surf session while he is landlocked — just to rub it in!!! Mil Gracias, Magoo
Just a little extra food for thought --8’0" hyper-egg nose 17" > with and up type 50-50rail transitioning into a down rail in the tail > about 60-40 in the middle center wide point-21 3/4 and a thinned tapered > tail round pin 15-15 1/2 the bottom light roll in the front 1/3 into flat > light concave center w/ a “v” in the last 36" and real > light double barrel concaves w/ the “v” and the blank go w/ an > 8’4"r backing up the templete plus 1/2 tail rocker if you can get it > this board rips under experienced feet and is a favorite of begginers and > old guys too—I know it goes against the grain a little but you might > want to consider it----oh yea tri fin set up, I can hear the purist groan > now --its ok just a little spice Thanks for your view cdb – it certainly helps the ‘virtual’ board I see within the minds eye. If you could share a little more insight: Clarks’ 84R has a thin tail. Where would you shave off the 4 5/8" excess inches from that blank in order to maximize the results of your design? Finally, how would you address the resulting rocker? What thickness are you envisioning? Thank you all for taking the time to help me out. I will be starting this board next week and I value your collective input. Thank you, Magoo
Thanks for your view cdb – it certainly helps the ‘virtual’ board I see > within the minds eye.>>> If you could share a little more insight:>>> Clarks’ 84R has a thin tail. Where would you shave off the 4 5/8" > excess inches from that blank in order to maximize the results of your > design? Finally, how would you address the resulting rocker? What > thickness are you envisioning?>>> Thank you all for taking the time to help me out. I will be starting this > board next week and I value your collective input.>>> Thank you,> Magoo more or less on that shape I move the nose templete back till I can get the full 17" and that useally splits the differance which gives just a little cushion for the tail rocker --it does create a really thin tail in the last 6" but if the rocker is loose enough it works extremely well --custom ordering a blank w/ plus 1/2 tail rocker even makes it better and I still go for the ultra thin foiled tail and I try to stay at 27/8-3" thickness for maximum glide