Hey Greg - back when I was a grom there was a magazine issue, either Surfer or Surfing…featuring “The 25 most influential shapers of all time” or such…and there amongst the usual suspects was yourself, pictured with a big block of EPS. It’d be a spin-out to see that again.
That was my introduction to you, and of course I later worked with you. That was a pleasure - I fondly remember watching you mix the RR formula by kicking a 44 gallon drum up and down the drive…so non-rocket science it was a relief!
That was a cool time at FW Josh. Surfing Mags top ten shapers of all time, I was very honored but I’m not sure you can boil it down to ten, maybe one hundred but so many have had great influence. I grew up in Cocoa Beach. Pretty much everyone was involved in the space program at some level, all the parents. I would go to parties with my parents and all of us surf guys would be huddled in a corner talking surf while the geek dads would be huddled in a corner talking about launching a Saturn 5. We thought we were so cool but 50 years after we’re gone no one will remember anything we did but in a thousand years they’ll still be talking about what those geeky dads did. They had a saying back then, “Low tech is high tech,” which is pretty much the same as KISS. Rolling drums was a way to get it done.
Hi Wingnut. My opinion on foam has been, for a very long time, that it’s all about the waves your riding vs. foam density. If your riding small waves, under head high, you should be riding EPS. Lower density rides better and the lower you go the better it’ll ride. As you get into some juice begin to ride higher density EPS, maybe XPS. As the waves get more serious you begin to move into higher densities in urethane and then if you into really big stuff you begin riding wood cores. Watching the pro guys now, especially Slater, they generally are riding EPS and when the swell starts pumping they switch to PU. Then you watch the tow in guys and their using high density PU or balsa. I like epoxy over everything (bet that’s a surprise) because it’s easier, stronger and nicer to work with. In my latter days of board building laminating became my favorite job because it was clean, quiet and not real physical. I’d go to work in the evening when it was cool, turn on the music and shoot half a dozen sides. PE isn’t like that. Rush, rush, rush with a mask on and acetone and vapors. As for tips this place has always been the place to ask specific questions. Lots of good stuff here.
Hi Mattwho, the guys I work with in FL are using wider tails (16") in gutless crap with deep concave running all the way through the bottoms now. 1/4 to 3/8ths deep. Mostly four fins or three fins with a small fin in the back. Just gets down to planing in nothing.
gotta disagree Reverb - lots of great info here on everything from surf history to shapes and technique. To be clear: any shaper who volunteers for the “hot seat” is allowed plenty of leeway in explaining, and expressing enthusiasm for their own shapes, products, etc. And there are a lot of us, myself included, who prefer epoxy over poly resin, and use it exclusively.
If you have a question, ask up. If you just want to gripe about the forum, or the thread, or epoxy resin, find another thread to post in. The ground rules for the hot seat threads are we ask the questions, hot seat shaper answers. Re-read Greg Tate’s first post in the thread.
For surfboards, do you post-cure at the end (after everything) or before final sanding (after all epoxy layers, before any other materials or finishes)?
What do you think of acrylic floor sealers and 2-part automotive clears over epoxy?
Greg, thank you for your participation and comments. A question regarding EPS/epoxy layups and expansion. Frequently, on my eps boards, I’ve witnessed the following that I’ll try and explain clearly. After a couple of years I see a phenomenon where the foam has very slightly expaned (or the stringer slightly retracted, but that seems less likely since it has happened with balsa, samba, poplar, mahogony…) leaving a micro depression along the stringer from nose to tail. Pretty regular. No delamination, no apparent loss of structural integrity, but on a nice polished longboard it does bug a bit. Heck, even on my other boards it bugs a bit.
Medium density blanks - hand layups usually in 6+6/6 or 6+4/6. Rarely have a chance to heat up as I surf virtually only mornings/evenings because of skin issues.
I’ve seen this on poly/pu boards as well, but less systematically. Any insights are appreciated!
I have had similar experiences as Jeffrey, but in my case it was only when doing epoxy (RR kwik kick) over a poly blank, and only when pigments were added to the epoxy. My working theory is that the pigment kept the epoxy more flexible than it might have been, and thus susceptible to expansion…mostly likely candidate being either gas or heat (or both) from the stringer/glueline/glass combo. Working solution has been 1) no dark colors for epoxy over poly and 2) less pigment than I’d typically use for good color saturation. any other suggestions? would love to have more freedom to do color epoxy work over poly blanks. Thanks,
Hey Greg, im a young shaper from Israel and thanks to good man that answer the name “Lee Jordan” im using your epoxy. im only using kwik kick and im loving it, all the boards I make, most of them are PU, im using kwik kick on it, cant even hear about poly, im loving it!
its preety easy to get problems with epoxy but once I love the advantages that it gives me.
so the ultra is an additve like additve f? I mean, can I mix it up with a batch of kwick kick and add F ? do you know the costs alredy? and when its get out to the market?
I do have few little problems with epoxy… SANDING and Polishing.
when im sanding my hot coat everything just great but when im sanding my gloss coats. Smart men told me that for good gloss finish I need to start sanding the coat with 400 and not lower than that because it very very hard to remove a lower grits scratches. which grit paper you start for sanding gloss?
the secend problem is when im sanding the gloss coat with the 400, the paper clogging very very fast, I mean 10 SEC on the board and the paper all white and cloged even with good paper from indasa. the carpet trick is nice but there is any other soulution for that?
thank you very much! hope you will continue ship to Israel the best resin…
edit:
I have few more questions.
what is the diffrence bettween the “normal” RR epoxy to the PH formoula?
how much “forgiving” is RR Kwick kick for wrong ratios? (in the 20 ml area) im sure you have done some experiments with that.
Hi Jeffrey and Keith. I’ve seen this a few times too. XPS did it the worst and that was from heat. EPS doesn’t generally do this but if the foam isn’t aged quite long enough before being pressed into blocks it can have some residual blowing agent which can cause a post expansion. As for PU I’ve seen it shrink and expand through the years and it’s usually dependent on factors that happen during the blank manufacturing. With all these foams we’re talking about very low density which is pushing the envelope of even being possible. I’ve made urethane blanks and it’s an art, very difficult. I used to hear all the stories about people dissing Clark and overall I thought he did a good job.
Gee Reverb, you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? We all have our preferences which is actually a good thing. Makes it so we can exchange ideas and better what we do. So I’m just gonna answer questions as best I can and if I occasionally stray into talking about what I do and what I believe sorry.
I hope im not speaking out of place, but Greg telling us about his epoxies is sort of the whole point of the thread. Most of us, at least sometimes, use epoxy. And I think all epoxy users are more than grateful to Greg for helping us use his epoxy a little better.
Hey Greg - It’s an honor to have you on this forum sharing your knowledge. Alot of us “Backyard Hacks” greatly appreciate it…
My question has to do with using Innegra (EPS blank) & epoxy with pigments.I’ve recently tried using Innegra on a couple of my builds. Unfortunately, the first one, I also added red pigment to the epoxy ( before I learned that the innegra “wets out” somewhat opaque, not clear & ended up with a pinkish red layup. The only solution I could come up with was to do multiple hot coats with pigment in them as well, and that caused a whole slew of problems(fish eyes, and lots of clogged sandpaper). I mixed by weight so I’m sure my ratio was accurate & think that the pigment my have prevented the epoxy from fully curing. Do you have any ideas/techniques for getting "color into a board layed up with Innegra?
…ok; possibly is like Everysurfer is saying, my apologies in that case, but It s a bit stronger than me when some one start to make noise of his product in the general forum…
My question is regarding the changes between you as a competition surfer and then as a shaper.
I think a little leeway on the self promotion and product name dropping is fitting for these hot seat features. Why not let a guy talk about what he does without restrictions or sanctions? Putting tight parameters on what’s off limits would discourage many experienced guys from participating.
The question I have is what is the best place to get RR on the west coast?
I contacted Graphite Masters as instructed on Sways, but as a backyard guy, I was basically ignored… So, I get my epoxy from Greenlight - which costs a lot more probably due to all the shipping, etc…
The only other issue that I have ever had with your epoxy is attempting to tint/pigment the resin. Do you have any suggestions on tint/pigment? Or do you just recommend the foam stain?
Does RR or your epoxy need keying or sanding before hotcoating, i presume all epoxy does. I use what i think is Kinetix here but not sure as its been rebranded. Its a really good resin which is easy to use and kick relatively fast but needs sanding with 80grit before adding more layers be it another lamination or sand/hotcoat.
Do you know of any epoxy that does not require this?
Whats your opinion on topcoating epoxy with polyester, i have done a few successfully and some very unsuccessfully:)
That’s interesting …Ive recently built a 5’6" …it’s a fish tail , and 5 1/2 " between the tips of the fish tail. The original plan was for a twinzer cluster , but the more I look at it , the more I see a twin , with a small centre fin near the tail , to eliminate that “skating” thing. It has full width concave from front foot , going to flat behind the twin-fins…I remember my first 70’s twin fin , which had the fin tips level with the pod of the board…I never liked that tail skating feel when I tried the more modern MR type twinnies…???.. any thoughts on that Greg ?